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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 2
Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:32 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
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Is Peter Sutcliffe the real Yorkshire Ripper? Or is he the copycat killer
that was being hunted during the 1970's/1980's? Did he admit to the 13
murders in a deal made with the police It was known by many that the police
were looking for two or more people involved in these murders. Why has
there been no mention of the other person/s being sought in connection
to the murders since the arrest and imprisonment of Peter Sutcliffe Since
accepting his confessions, the police etc, closed the case. There was
definitely more than one person involved in the murders...This was stated
by the police themselves and was also publicised by many newspapers. What
happened to the search for this 'other' person/s Why did police close
the case after Peter Sutcliffe's confessions to all 13 murders when these
confessions were just accepted as gospel without even being investigated
thoroughly Is anyone else interested in the truth of this matter and concerned
about the fact that there are so many unsolved murders
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bradfurd lad
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Bradistan
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:27 pm
Post subject:
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the police also thought he was a geordie, nuff said about yet another
conspiracy theory.
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:36 pm
Post subject:
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You might get some answers from a chap called Noel O'Gara who has written
a book called 'The Real Yorkshire Ripper.'
I've misplaced it at the moment but if you type the title in on Google
it should bring it up.
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onewisemonkey
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 71
Location: Eccleshill
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:13 pm
Post subject:
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I think Peter Sutcliffe also killed Diana, planted all four 7/7 bombs
and flew a cruise missile into the Pentagon
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DaNnY_2007
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:18 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="onewisemonkey"]I think Peter Sutcliffe also killed Diana,
planted all four 7/7 bombs and flew a cruise missile into the Pentagon[/quote]
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mixtar
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 79
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:43 pm
Post subject:
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Look how many motorists theyve been able to hound by not looking for anyone
else! Jeez...even sutcliffe had to basicaly give himself up, or theyd
still be looking for him!
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onewisemonkey
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 71
Location: Eccleshill
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:50 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="mixtar"]Look how many motorists theyve been able to
hound by not looking for anyone else! Jeez...even sutcliffe had to basicaly
give himself up, or theyd still be looking for him! [/quote]
Wasn't he caught for a motoring offence? nicking number plates IIRC
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mixtar
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 79
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:11 am
Post subject:
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[quote="onewisemonkey"][quote="mixtar"]Look how many
motorists theyve been able to hound by not looking for anyone else! Jeez...even
sutcliffe had to basicaly give himself up, or theyd still be looking for
him! [/quote]
Wasn't he caught for a motoring offence? nicking number plates IIRC[/quote]Then
i feel sorry for him! Another hounded motorist! Thats probably why theyve
continued with such vigour...in the hope that one day Bin Laden and the
likes will show-up sporting a dodgy rear light.
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Wandering Sheep
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 54
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 1:55 pm
Post subject:
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He should have being 'Hung from his Ballocks'
That's the only way for those people.
The nice way doesn't work!
Bah.
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drnh
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 19
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:10 pm
Post subject:
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^^ indeed
If it were a bad dog, it would have been put down
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The Monk
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 170
Location: Omnipresent
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:20 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="Wandering Sheep"]He should have being 'Hung from his
Ballocks'
That's the only way for those people.
The nice way doesn't work!
Bah.[/quote]
some people pay good cash for stuff like that
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Politics has less to do with where you live than where your heart is.
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onewisemonkey
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 71
Location: Eccleshill
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 5:19 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="Wandering Sheep"]He should have being 'Hung from his
Ballocks'
That's the only way for those people.
The nice way doesn't work!
Bah.[/quote]
Bit harsh for knicking car number plates?
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:15 pm
Post subject:
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I remember the police (expletive deleted) about on this - I was about
13 at the time but because I lived in the "area" I was interviewed
as a suspect.
You have to wonder how thick most plod are to do this.
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 281
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject:
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Funny how Kay asks for opinions, then never returns.
Tell me Bah Tat, what hobbies did you have at thirteen?
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Wandering Sheep
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 54
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:35 pm
Post subject:
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Bah tat, Did you make sure you got a receipt & Certificate?
Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 121
Location: Bradistan
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:30 pm
Post subject:
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I was pulled up a few times by plod while out in my marina and as I was
an electrician they always took a great interest in my tools
seriously though if the police then had the benefit of computer databases
and DNA testing in the late 1970s then I have no doubt that he would have
been caught much sooner.
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Wandering Sheep
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 54
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:38 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="bradfurd lad"]I was pulled up a few times by plod while
out in my marina and as I was an electrician they always took a great
interest in my tools
I bet the Lady Cops did??
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Wandering Sheep
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 54
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:45 pm
Post subject:
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The silly thing about those times was most men had a look of Sutcliffe,
They had beards.
It was amazing how he did the murders and then turned up at Barratts
the following morning to drive a lorry!
It was like living a double life to him.
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mixtar
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 79
Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 8:40 pm
Post subject:
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You were thirteen baht at??? Bloody hell i had you down as about 65 today.
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 2
Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:55 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
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Apologies for my absence Mickfly! Computer crashed and had to have it
repaired. Just got back on line in last 30 mins and am checking out comments/views.
Am very tired tho so may get back to it 2mrw.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:40 am
Post subject: Yorkshire Ripper
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Interesting post K and well it is a fact that Sutcliffe was eliminated
12 times at least because his blood group didnt match the letter writer
who had left bites on two victims which revealed the Ripper's rare blood
group.
I agree it was on the record that there was a copycat killer involved
also.
I dont trust the police and lets face it they still insist the the Birmingham
6 were the real bombers.
problem is we are a police run state and the media are their spin doctors.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:47 pm
Post subject:
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What kind of 13 year old attracts Ripper Enquiry detectives? Interviewed
as a SUSPECT?!!!! You must've been (must be?) one CREEPY individual.
As for thick plods? What age do you suggest murderers be eliminated from
investigation? Fourteen? That would leave an awful lot of psychopathic
young killers roaming the streets today, wouldn't it? James Bulger's killers
would've been out there murdering for another few years before they fit
into your tidy little murderer's pigeon-hole.
A thirteen year old male ( especially one who's behaviour attracts the
Murder Squad) is easily capable of smacking a lady over the head with
a hammer and of inflicting fatal injuries.
The Ripper, despite the lack of computerised systems, WAS identified
as the number 1 suspect by a BRADFORD detective constable called Andy
Laptew.
The subsequent failures to arrest Sutcliffe sem to be down to internal
one-upmanship between Leeds and Bradford detectives, and high ranking
intransigence.
_________________
Self-control is the art of raising the eyebrow without raising the roof.
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 8
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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joey3 wrote:
Interesting post K and well it is a fact that Sutcliffe was eliminated
12 times at least because his blood group didnt match the letter writer
who had left bites on two victims which revealed the Ripper's rare blood
group.
I agree it was on the record that there was a copycat killer involved
also.
I dont trust the police and lets face it they still insist the the Birmingham
6 were the real bombers.
problem is we are a police run state and the media are their spin doctors.
As I understand it, Sutcliffe was the copycat killer since the forensics
tied him in to just four of the killings. It looks like he admitted to
them all because he wanted some kind of warped celebrity status.
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 281
Posted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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[quote="Colin Peters"]As I understand it, Sutcliffe was the
copycat killer since the forensics tied him in to just four of the killings.
[/quote]
Finally, we have a posting from a Police Officer!
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:24 am
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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As I understand it, Sutcliffe was the copycat killer since the forensics
tied him in to just four of the killings. It looks like he admitted to
them all because he wanted some kind of warped celebrity status.[/quote]
Dick Holland a retired Superintendant offered him a deal for his confessions
and he was offered no trial and a mental hospital place.
strange deal if he was the real Ripper.
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992 I think so it makes me wonder if Sutcliffe is the Ripper.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:52 am
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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joey3 wrote:
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992.
That's a pretty brave statement to make, and it's one that I personally
wouldn't post unless I had a bottomless pit of money to fight a libel
case. Maybe best to ask for it to be removed, it could save a lot of grief.
_________________
Self-control is the art of raising the eyebrow without raising the roof.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Rory Kroot wrote:
joey3 wrote:
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992.
That's a pretty brave statement to make, and it's one that I personally
wouldn't post unless I had a bottomless pit of money to fight a libel
case. Maybe best to ask for it to be removed, it could save a lot of grief.
In case you've forgotten truth is an absolute defense against libel and
I can't see any jury thinking that the police behind Kiszko's conviction
were anything other than wholly disgusting and dishonest.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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[/quote]In case you've forgotten truth is an absolute defense against
libel and I can't see any jury thinking that the police behind Kiszko's
conviction were anything other than wholly disgusting and dishonest.[/quote]
Wrong. PROOF of the truth is an absolute defence. This names an individual
directly, and if you actually believe what you say then repeat the accusation
yourself. I'll ensure it is brought to the attention of the interested
parties, and we can then have your theory tested to see if it's correct.
_________________
Self-control is the art of raising the eyebrow without raising the roof.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Rory Kroot wrote:
In case you've forgotten truth is an absolute defense against libel and
I can't see any jury thinking that the police behind Kiszko's conviction
were anything other than wholly disgusting and dishonest.[/quote]
Wrong. PROOF of the truth is an absolute defence. This names an individual
directly, and if you actually believe what you say then repeat the accusation
yourself. I'll ensure it is brought to the attention of the interested
parties, and we can then have your theory tested to see if it's correct.[/quote]
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992 I think so it makes me wonder if Sutcliffe is the Ripper
now (expletive deleted) off you stupid (expletive deleted).
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Baht At wrote:
Rory Kroot wrote:
In case you've forgotten truth is an absolute defense against libel and
I can't see any jury thinking that the police behind Kiszko's conviction
were anything other than wholly disgusting and dishonest.
Wrong. PROOF of the truth is an absolute defence. This names an individual
directly, and if you actually believe what you say then repeat the accusation
yourself. I'll ensure it is brought to the attention of the interested
parties, and we can then have your theory tested to see if it's correct.[/quote]
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992 I think so it makes me wonder if Sutcliffe is the Ripper
now (expletive deleted) off you stupid (expletive deleted).[/quote]
Ooo, diddums! Hated forum contributor in loss of control shock! But thanks
for hanging yourself. I hate to let out rope without it being put to good
use. I'll see what I can do.
_________________
Author Message
Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Rory Kroot wrote:
Baht At wrote:
Rory Kroot wrote:
In case you've forgotten truth is an absolute defense against libel and
I can't see any jury thinking that the police behind Kiszko's conviction
were anything other than wholly disgusting and dishonest.
Wrong. PROOF of the truth is an absolute defence. This names an individual
directly, and if you actually believe what you say then repeat the accusation
yourself. I'll ensure it is brought to the attention of the interested
parties, and we can then have your theory tested to see if it's correct.
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992 I think so it makes me wonder if Sutcliffe is the Ripper
now (expletive deleted) off you stupid (expletive deleted).[/quote]
Ooo, diddums! Hated forum contributor in loss of control shock! But thanks
for hanging yourself. I hate to let out rope without it being put to good
use. I'll see what I can do.[/quote]
oooo complete (expletive deleted) asks to be exposed as a complete (expletive
deleted) .... you've been called you w-anker.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:30 pm
Post subject:
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So, what we've got here is a western culture hating, anti-British, pro-Islamic,
agrophobic, impotent rabble rouser who's love life comes downloaded from
the internet. Thank god you're on here, easy meat.
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Self-control is the art of raising the eyebrow without raising the roof.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:34 pm
Post subject:
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Rory Kroot wrote:
So, what we've got here is a western culture hating, anti-British, pro-Islamic,
agrophobic, impotent rabble rouser who's love life comes downloaded from
the internet. Thank god you're on here, easy meat.
If I hate what you like then I'm sure I'm better than you. Not that hating
yankie bastards is to be admired unless you are a decent english gent.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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[
Ooo, diddums! Hated forum contributor in loss of control shock! But thanks
for hanging yourself. I hate to let out rope without it being put to good
use. I'll see what I can do.[/quote]
Relax diddums. Holland was actually charged in court along with a forensic
scientist Richard Outteridge in 1994 with fabricating evidence against
Kiszko but the magistrate dismissed the charges because of the length
of time that elapsed and memories fading etc not to mention that poor
Stefan Kiszko was dead and his grieving mother only died the day before
they were charged.
Holland got off because he had a good solicitor, none other than Kerry
MacGill who practiced in Bradford and now sits as a crown court judge.
MacGill had been instrumental in doing the deal for Sutcliffe with Holland
years earlier and they needed each other like every bent cop needs a bent
solicitor.
Goes to show that some cops are decent fellows and were anxious to get
Holland to pay for his crimes but they were trumped by a bent judiciary.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:38 pm
Post subject:
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Baht At wrote:
Rory Kroot wrote:
So, what we've got here is a western culture hating, anti-British, pro-Islamic,
agrophobic, impotent rabble rouser who's love life comes downloaded from
the internet. Thank god you're on here, easy meat.
If I hate what you like then I'm sure I'm better than you. Not that hating
yankie bastards is to be admired unless you are a decent english gent.
Ha! See what I mean? Says he hates racists, then says he hates a particular
people.
Nurse! That strange man's out of bed again!
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:44 pm
Post subject:
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Rory Kroot wrote:
Baht At wrote:
Rory Kroot wrote:
So, what we've got here is a western culture hating, anti-British, pro-Islamic,
agrophobic, impotent rabble rouser who's love life comes downloaded from
the internet. Thank god you're on here, easy meat.
If I hate what you like then I'm sure I'm better than you. Not that hating
yankie bastards is to be admired unless you are a decent english gent.
Ha! See what I mean? Says he hates racists, then says he hates a particular
people.
Nurse! That strange man's out of bed again!
yanks are a people? I thought they were just invaders destroying native
people.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:53 pm
Post subject:
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The doctor will see you shortly. Footy's on. Ta ta!
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Self-control is the art of raising the eyebrow without raising the roof.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:58 pm
Post subject:
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Rory Kroot wrote:
The doctor will see you shortly. Footy's on. Ta ta!
He watches football rather than rugger need more be said about his class?
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Joy Merryweather
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Location: No longer in the dump that is Bradford thank God
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Rory Kroot wrote:
joey3 wrote:
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992.
That's a pretty brave statement to make, and it's one that I personally
wouldn't post unless I had a bottomless pit of money to fight a libel
case.
You can't libel the dead. Holland died a couple of days ago, so unless
he decides to haunt Baht At for the rest of his natural there's not a
lot he can do about it. His family on the other hand...
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Joy Merryweather wrote:
Rory Kroot wrote:
joey3 wrote:
Holland was the cop who framed Stefan Kiszko for murder and he was exhonerated
in 1992.
That's a pretty brave statement to make, and it's one that I personally
wouldn't post unless I had a bottomless pit of money to fight a libel
case.
You can't libel the dead. Holland died a couple of days ago, so unless
he decides to haunt Baht At for the rest of his natural there's not a
lot he can do about it. His family on the other hand...
Bugger I was hoping that he was alive to fulfill the tw*ts boast.
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Joy Merryweather
Joined: 16 Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Location: No longer in the dump that is Bradford thank God
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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Baht At wrote:
Bugger I was hoping that he was alive to fulfill the tw*ts boast.
Died on the 17th of cancer. Surely the T&A must have covered his
death - it's rather more newsworthy than most of the rubbish they print.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 441
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joy Merryweather wrote:
Baht At wrote:
Bugger I was hoping that he was alive to fulfill the tw*ts boast.
Died on the 17th of cancer. Surely the T&A must have covered his
death - it's rather more newsworthy than most of the rubbish they print.
I guess I didn't see the "lying (expletive deleted) that fitted up
loads of innocent people dies" headline.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baht At wrote:
Joy Merryweather wrote:
Baht At wrote:
Bugger I was hoping that he was alive to fulfill the tw*ts boast.
Died on the 17th of cancer. Surely the T&A must have covered his
death - it's rather more newsworthy than most of the rubbish they print.
I guess I didn't see the "lying (expletive deleted) that fitted up
loads of innocent people dies" headline.
This is GREAT stuff!
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Self-control is the art of raising the eyebrow without raising the roof.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Yorkshire Ripper
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[ Surely the T&A must have covered his death - it's rather more newsworthy
than most of the rubbish they print.[/quote]I guess I didn't see the "lying
(expletive deleted) that fitted up loads of innocent people dies"
headline.[/quote]
Nothing about Holland's death on their web site but the YP have it.
The T knows too much about Holland and his sham life as a cop to tallk
about him.
Last time I saw him on TV telling the same old lies, he looked like death
warmed up.
That man had a lot of guilt on his mind and he knew that he was instrumental
in locking up loonie Sutcliffe and thereby letting the real Ripper get
away. Not a nice thing to have on your mind if you were a cop who had
been fooling the public for twenty years or more with fabricated confessions
of nutters just to pretend you solved the case.
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:26 pm
Post subject:
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If anyone has evidence of corruption against anyone involved in either
the Kisko or Ripper enquiries they should bring it into the public domain,
not least for the public good and for the families of Kisko and the murdered
women.
If the T & A has knowledge of such things it MUST publish what it
knows (as opposed to what it thinks it knows).
Snide comments and conjecture purely based on being anti-police helps
nobody.
_________________
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 281
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:35 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="Rory Kroot"]If anyone has evidence of corruption against
anyone involved in either the Kisko or Ripper enquiries they should bring
it into the public domain, not least for the public good and for the families
of Kisko and the murdered women.
If the T & A has knowledge of such things it MUST publish what it
knows (as opposed to what it thinks it knows).
Snide comments and conjecture purely based on being anti-police helps
nobody.[/quote]
Rory:
It sounds like you are accusing these people of making wild assumptions,
which is hardly fair when you look at some of the posts.
These folks KNOW that 7/7 was a Gov't setup.
These folks KNOW that 9/11 was a Gov't setup.
These folks KNOW that the Ripper conviction was a Gov't setup.
Surely they can't be wrong, they have proof (well, they know a website
that says it has proof).
One of these folks KNOWS that ALL coppers are bastuards
One of these folks KNOWS that ALL middle class people a tw*ts
One of these folks KNOWS that he is always right. (because he is our 'better',
and everyone who disagrees is a racist, or a chav, or gay, or Muslim,
or female.)
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Rory Kroot
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:41 pm
Post subject:
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Sorry Mickfly. You've seen through me again.
I'll go sit in a darkened room in sackcloth and ashes until I learn to
act normal.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 5
Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:08 pm
Post subject:
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Rory Kroot wrote:
Sorry Mickfly. You've seen through me again.
I'll go sit in a darkened room in sackcloth and ashes until I learn to
act normal.
fly Mick is so clever and he knows how to change the subject so well althought
I fail so see a connection between 7/7 and Dick Holland's crimes aganst
Kiszko.
When Kiszko was tried for murder Holland had forensic evidence in his
possession that would have cleared him and the scientist knew that also
because he had checked it under the microscope and told Holland in his
report about Kiszko not matching the killer's profile. It is likely that
the legal team for the prosecution knew this also and the CPS who examined
and set up the prosecution. I guess Holland was not alone in knowing that
Kiszko was innocent before and during his trial for murder and for the
16 years that he protested his innocence.
That puts a lot of guilty consconscous out there but Holland was the most
publicly exposed and the instigator of the crime against Kiszko because
he forced the confession out of Kiszko and that was all he needed.
I imagine Holland framed many an innocent man over his career of crime
fighting.
Author Message
Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:30 am
Post subject: Re: The Yorkshire Ripper
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[quote="Kay Lintern -- Sutcliffe was always eyeing up young school
girls...Yuk In fact, the day after Carol's murder, I remember 2 girls
being involved in an incident outside our school gates, (Eccleshill Grammer).
A man fitting Sutcliffe's description attacked them. A few days later,
I read in the Telegraph that police said this was fabricated. IT WAS NOT
FABRICATED. Those poor girls must have and must still be devastated at
the fact that they were called liars and told to go away No wonder people
have lost faith in British Justice. So many proven false convictions,
so many true crimes that are ignored Where do you go from there [/quote]
Where do you go indeed Kay.
I am relying wholly upon my memory now since I have misplaced the book
which was my point of reference, but, as I recall, didn't Sutcliffe start
off his murderous career as a paedophile?
I remember reading of a little girl who was killed and abused in much
the same manner as little Lesley Molseed.
Both were killed, mutilated, and masturbated over, and a car very much
like the one that Sutcliffe owned at that time was reported to have been
in the vicinity.
It could well be that Sutcliffe switched from little girls to adult women
in order to emulate his hero who emerged on the scene at that time, The
Real Yorkshire Ripper.
The modus operandi on his four known adult victims was the same, killed,
mutilated, and masturbated over.
There's got to be a limit to the number of sickos who were operating at
that time in the same area.
As I say, I am relying on my memory at the moment, but, if I am wrong,
I am willing to stand corrected, and, if I am considered to be right I
would ask to be supported by anyone out there with more knowledge than
myself.
It is very very possible that two innocent men have been inmprisoned for
murders committed by Sutcliffe whilst Sutcliffe himself is happy to take
the rap for murders in which he had no part. The whole scenario is pure
evil.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote It is very very possible that two innocent men have been inmprisoned
for murders committed by Sutcliffe whilst Sutcliffe himself is happy to
take the rap for murders in which he had no part. The whole scenario is
pure evil.[/quote]
Actually Sutcliffe has written a book about his crimes in which he now
claims that he didnt do all the murders he was convicted of.
That was reported by the News of the World and the Sunday Mirror in 2005
but the book never surfaced for obvious reasons.
Sutcliffe now claims that he is not the Ripper.
I think I can see why the local papers will not tell the public the truth
because they never questioned these convictions when they happened and
simply accepted the words spoken in court and reported the proceedings
like dummies.
It was all done to satisfy the public demand to solve the case at any
price.
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andycapp
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 179
Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:35 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rory Kroot wrote:
What kind of 13 year old attracts Ripper Enquiry detectives? Interviewed
as a SUSPECT?!!!! You must've been (must be?) one CREEPY individual.
As for thick plods? What age do you suggest murderers be eliminated from
investigation? Fourteen? That would leave an awful lot of psychopathic
young killers roaming the streets today, wouldn't it? James Bulger's killers
would've been out there murdering for another few years before they fit
into your tidy little murderer's pigeon-hole.
A thirteen year old male ( especially one who's behaviour attracts the
Murder Squad) is easily capable of smacking a lady over the head with
a hammer and of inflicting fatal injuries.
The Ripper, despite the lack of computerised systems, WAS identified
as the number 1 suspect by a BRADFORD detective constable called Andy
Laptew.
The subsequent failures to arrest Sutcliffe sem to be down to internal
one-upmanship between Leeds and Bradford detectives, and high ranking
intransigence.
It didn't help that the head of the investigation George Oldfield was
an alcoholic. The detective who filed andy Laptew's report was from huddersfield!
_________________
Is this the real life or is this fantasy
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:27 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
andycapp wrote:
Rory Kroot wrote:
The Ripper, despite the lack of computerised systems, WAS identified as
the number 1 suspect by a BRADFORD detective constable called Andy Laptew.
The subsequent failures to arrest Sutcliffe sem to be down to internal
one-upmanship between Leeds and Bradford detectives, and high ranking
intransigence.
It didn't help that the head of the investigation George Oldfield was
an alcoholic. The detective who filed andy Laptew's report was from huddersfield!
Sutcliffe was indeed identified as a hot suspect by Bradford cop Andy
Laptew but bear in mind that the police were focussing the hunt exclusively
for the Ripper who had B blood and a big gap in his top front teeth. Sutcliffe
had neither and thats why Laptew's report was shelved.
The fact that they knew full well that there was a copycat killer involved
who had committed some of the murders was not followed up because of their
fixation with catching the Ripper. The copycat killer was never looked
for after Sutcliffe confessed to the lot.
Now Sutcliffe is claiming that he is not the Ripper.
When he was arrested of course Laptew was shocked but he didnt have access
to the real eliminating factors which Dick Holland and George Oldfield
retained for a small band of trusted tecs at Ripper HQ.
The bulk of the police were not entrusted with the real clues to his identity
because Oldfield and co wanted to be the ones to collar the Ripper who
was taunting them with his letters and murders.
Sutcliffe, the serial nutter and masturbator was offered no trial and
10 years in the mental home in return for his confessions to the lot.
What killer could pass that offer up especially after Dick Holland gave
his solicitor certain assurances.
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:33 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sutcliffe, the serial nutter and masturbator was offered no trial and
10 years in the mental home in return for his confessions to the lot.
What killer could pass that offer up especially after Dick Holland gave
his solicitor certain assurances.
What proof do you have Joey3 that Sutcliffe was made this offer and what
possible assurances could Dick Holland have given his solicitors in persuading
them into going along with this deception? Who were these solicitors and
what possible interest could they have had in going along with these deceptions?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:19 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Peters wrote:
What proof do you have Joey3 that Sutcliffe was made this offer and what
possible assurances could Dick Holland have given his solicitors in persuading
them into going along with this deception? Who were these solicitors and
what possible interest could they have had in going along with these deceptions?
I actually read most of the books written about the Ripper and I've been
to Leeds and Bradford libraries and read all the reports of the case especialy
in 1980 and the arrest and trial of Sutcliffe.
Two things stand out in all the reports of the trial which was strictly
a test of his sanity and there was no hard evidence of the crimes adduced.
The trial was simply a test of sanity as to whether the court should accept
his plea of diminished responsibility because that was the plea and he
was told he would be free in about 10 years under that deal.
Sutcliffe was offered that deal by Dick Holland throught his solicitor
Kerry MacGill who was a junior solicitor with the Bradford firm Lumb and
Kenningham. MacGill also acted for Dick Holland when Holland was charged
with withholding evidence in the Kiszko case and got him off that rap.
He is now a crown court judge in Bradford court so you can see his career
took off after the Ripper case made his name.
Two Prison officers gave evidence in court that Sutcliffe told them of
this deal while awaiting his committal to the mental and he confidently
told them that his court case would only be a formality to get the judge
to approve the deal. He said a room had been reserved for him in the hospital.
However the judge didnt approve the plea and a trial of his sanity ensued.
The police and CPS had 4 of the nation's top criminal psychiatrists in
court who all gave evidence that Sutcliffe was mad and that was done in
support of the plea.
He was found by the jury to be sane and answerable for his crimes or
rather the crimes of the Ripper and then the was sent down without any
further trial which should have been based on the evidence of the crimes
and the injuries to the victims.
Of course the many ladies he had assaulted, Marilyn Moore, Maureen Long
and Mrs Smelt and Rogulsky were able to identify him as their attacker
and that looked very convincing that he was the Ripper.
However prior to his arrest these attacks and two murders were in a grey
area and the police were not sure that these assaults were the work of
the Ripper or a copycat killer who was emulating the Ripper but one thing
was for certain on the record and that was that there were two killers
involved in the Ripper frame, the Ripper and the copycat killer who tried
to copy the Ripper.
Sutcliffe fits that profile perfectly.
As for the interest of the solicitor you should know that a solicitor
will try to get the best possible deal for his client and that is the
nature of their business. I dont think it is right for such a wheeler
dealer attitude in solving murders but the record of our courts shows
that that is how they do it.
In my book MacGill was wrong not to look at the evidence and ask himself
did his client really commit all the crimes he is confessing to and also
ask himself why the police were offering him such leniency for all these
confessions, given that he could get a life sentence for one murder alone.
It seems he took the easy route of accepting the word of Dick Holland
that his client was the Ripper.
If Sutcliffe really was responsible for all the crimes he confessed to
why on earth would they not want to have him convicted in open court and
put away for the rest of his life without any chance of parole?
Why do any sort of deal with this man unless they couldnt prove he was
the Ripper forensically and bear in mind that he had been eliminated 12
times already on these grounds?
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:40 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sutcliffe was offered that deal by Dick Holland throught his solicitor
Kerry MacGill who was a junior solicitor with the Bradford firm Lumb and
Kenningham. MacGill also acted for Dick Holland when Holland was charged
with withholding evidence in the Kiszko case and got him off that rap.
He is now a crown court judge in Bradford court so you can see his career
took off after the Ripper case made his name.
these grounds?
Thank you Joey3.
So much now becomes clear.
Sutcliffes chosen solicitors at that time, Lumb and Kenningham, were a
firm which specialised in legally aided perversions of justice, and these
perversions were not confined to their being party to just Sutcliffes
fantasies.
Back in those days they must have been the choice of any crook 'in the
know' who wanted to pervert justice.
They got behind a conman named Dennis Bottomley in procuring him £32,000
worth of legal aid to evade a debt of just £6,173 due to
myself.
If you want to see how it was done then please take a look at my website.
I am also aware of a chap from Australia who has been posting defaming
items on the internet about members of this same firm of solicitors.
As the saying goes, "There is no smoke without fire."
Perhaps any official investigation concerning the rpper case should begin
with this firm and their proven propensity towards anything fraudulent.
Do you agree?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:39 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote Thank you Joey3.
So much now becomes clear.
Sutcliffes chosen solicitors at that time, Lumb and Kenningham, were a
firm which specialised in legally aided perversions of justice, and these
perversions were not confined to their being party to just Sutcliffes
fantasies.
Back in those days they must have been the choice of any crook 'in the
know' who wanted to pervert justice.
They got behind a conman named Dennis Bottomley in procuring him £32,000
worth of legal aid to evade a debt of just £6,173 due to
myself.
If you want to see how it was done then please take a look at my website.
I am also aware of a chap from Australia who has been posting defaming
items on the internet about members of this same firm of solicitors.
As the saying goes, "There is no smoke without fire."
Perhaps any official investigation concerning the rpper case should begin
with this firm and their proven propensity towards anything fraudulent.
Do you agree?[/quote]
The partners are long gone and retired having been judges later.
I think you should confine yourself to the Ripper in this thread and not
get diverted into pursuing your private grudges against something that
you feel you were conned out of many years ago.
The reason for this is obvious. Nobody gives a damn about your debts or
money worries of twenty years back because we all have financial problems
today and there isnt a man or woman in Bradford who has not been ripped
off sometime in their lives.
The Ripper however is on a different plane and you should be careful not
to confuse them.
Several women in Bradford were murdered by both him and his copycat killer
Sutcliffe and several more assaulted by Sutcliffe in his efforts to become
the Ripper.
Police corruption on a massive scale was involved in this conviction and
the media support of a flawed conviction is a study that some will be
astonished at.
The real Killer is still a free man and several murders have taken place
in the interval and that should be the focus of this thread.
Have you a wife or daughters?
Do you not think their safety is more important than whinging about a
debt of twenty years back.
Our security for our life and our family is the primary matter in everyones
life and without that you have nothing.
For that security we pay the police and we have had a very shoddy return
with Dick Holland who I understand is being buried tomorrow in Huddersfield.
No doubt he will have full police honours and the usual obsequies and
the papers will report the lies as they are spoken.
Meanwhile his crimes go unnoticed and are concealed by his media protectors
who have always given him their uncritical support in the interests of
not rocking a boat that is rotten to the core.
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:34 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Our security for our life and our family is the primary matter in everyones
life and without that you have nothing.
At least you got that bit above right Joey3.
I was not, as you put it, 'whinging' about a twenty years old debt.
Money is not everything.
I was pointing out that the firm of solicitors involved with the ripper
were the same firm who played an active part in legally aiding and abetting
their client, Dennis Bottomley, to pursue his crime of fraud against me
through the legal system.
The crime of fraud, not a poxy debt.
You have the nerve to berate me and trivialise my experiences when, in
view of your own words above, it is obvious that you know nothing of my
experiences at the hands of these crooks.
I lost my home and property and everything that I had because of them.
Even worse, when poverty walks in, love walks out, and after she could
not take any more of the Final Demands and the visits from Bailliffs itemising
and valuing our possessions, ready to seize them, my wife left me, taking
our daughter with her.
When that happened I truly had lost everything.
I have a school group photograph of my daughter taken shortly after her
leaving me and even now, all these years later, it still screws me up
inside just to look at it.
I have shown it to several people, including a mutual friend who can
confirm, and have asked them to point out the most unhappiest looking
child. Every time they have pointed to my daughter.
The actions of corrupt money grabbing lawyers legally aiding a crooked
scumbag wrecked my little girls childhood.
These were the same firm of solicitors who you are making your allegations
about and I thought that adding my own experiences of them might reinforce
your own claims and perhaps prompt others who have suffered at their hands
to come forward and be counted.
On the subject of money, I will point out that on the last page of my
website I ask for none for myself, but that Bottomley has his illegally
gained assets seized under the proceeds of crime act.
The reason I wrote this is because I have submitted the website to anyone
and everyone who might have the power to correct this injustice.
To date I have had no luck with The West Yorkshire Police, the courts,
quite a few MPs including Tony Blair and John Reid and Gerry Sutcliffe
of the Home Office.
When we are pointing out the misdeeds of lawyers this is what we're up
against.
That's my lot. Now go and row your own boat
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 385
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:55 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin:
"I was pointing out that the firm of solicitors involved with the
ripper were the same firm who played an active part in legally aiding
and abetting their client, Dennis Bottomley, to pursue his crime of fraud
against me through the legal system. "
---------------------------------
" ...legally aiding and abetting their client..."
That's what they are paid to do, and they would do the same for you.
It doesn't mean it's right, but it is real life.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:42 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Peters wrote:
Our security for our life and our family is the primary matter in everyones
life and without that you have nothing.
At least you got that bit above right Joey3.
I was not, as you put it, 'whinging' about a twenty years old debt.
Money is not everything.
I was pointing out that the firm of solicitors involved with the ripper
were the same firm who played an active part in legally aiding and abetting
their client, Dennis Bottomley, to pursue his crime of fraud against me
through the legal system.
The crime of fraud, not a poxy debt.
You have the nerve to berate me and trivialise my experiences when, in
view of your own words above, it is obvious that you know nothing of my
experiences at the hands of these crooks.
I lost my home and property and everything that I had because of them.
Even worse, when poverty walks in, love walks out, and after she could
not take any more of the Final Demands and the visits from Bailliffs itemising
and valuing our possessions, ready to seize them, my wife left me, taking
our daughter with her.
When that happened I truly had lost everything.
I have a school group photograph of my daughter taken shortly after her
leaving me and even now, all these years later, it still screws me up
inside just to look at it.
I have shown it to several people, including a mutual friend who can
confirm, and have asked them to point out the most unhappiest looking
child. Every time they have pointed to my daughter.
The actions of corrupt money grabbing lawyers legally aiding a crooked
scumbag wrecked my little girls childhood.
These were the same firm of solicitors who you are making your allegations
about and I thought that adding my own experiences of them might reinforce
your own claims and perhaps prompt others who have suffered at their hands
to come forward and be counted.
On the subject of money, I will point out that on the last page of my
website I ask for none for myself, but that Bottomley has his illegally
gained assets seized under the proceeds of crime act.
The reason I wrote this is because I have submitted the website to anyone
and everyone who might have the power to correct this injustice.
To date I have had no luck with The West Yorkshire Police, the courts,
quite a few MPs including Tony Blair and John Reid and Gerry Sutcliffe
of the Home Office.
When we are pointing out the misdeeds of lawyers this is what we're up
against.
That's my lot. Now go and row your own boat
Well sorry about that Colin but you only mentioned the debt or way you
were allegedly defrauded. Now I see that you lost more than that and I
understand why you feel so bad to the law firm that acted for Sutcliffe
and got him such a good deal after he murdered innocent women and seriously
assaulted lots more.
Not to mention that law firm believed he was the Ripper a man who had
terrorised the whole country for five years and they bent all the rules
to get a sweet deal for him from cops who were bent on drawing a line
under each murder and then declaring those cases solved.
Now I am truly sorry for your great loss of a loving family and I understand
your emotion.
However we must not lose sight of the other victims whose lives were taken
in such a vile way and the many children who were orphaned by this man
and all their families and friends and neighbours and the fear that he
instilled into every person who read about his crimes as they happened
over five years.
How could the police whom we pay to protect us take the confessions of
a lunatic copycat killer, Sutcliffe and write the whole case as closed.
How could they not recognise that there was another killer even more calculating
than Sutcliffe who had benefitted by the confessions of Sutcliffe who
was glad it was all over. His first words after he confessed to being
the Ripper.
Can you imagine even a petty thief admitting his crime unless he was caught
bang to rights?
Even your own child admitting he took your change from your pocket?
And the Ripper says he is glad its all over and gives himself up.
That Colin is the admission of a copycat killer who believed he was the
Ripper.
Perhaps now that Dick Holland is dead and buried today, the T and A might
take the claims that there were two killers involved in the Ripper case
more seriously and investigate the evidence.
I watched the former deputy Chairman of the West Yorkshire police authority,
Bradford man Ronald Warren on tv last October stating that at the time
of the arrest they knew that there were two killers involved in the Ripper
frame and two different blood groups. He said that the senior police alll
knew that.
A new investigation might expose the corruption that took place during
that trial and save more lives and innocent victims. The facts are all
on the record but they have failed to address them, not least the fact
that Sutcliffe is now saying that he is not the Ripper.
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wizard
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 40
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:56 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To be honest this is the most interesting topic I have read on this forum.
I was unaware of many of the points raised by Joey3 and Colin Peters I
know that my eyes have been well and truly opened! It really doesn't suprise
me to find the Mp's named have done nothing, it is a thing they all exell
at. I hope enough can be done to make sure the case is re-examined, it
seems the original has gone to ground since Sutcliffe was arrested, or
are there any more twists to the tale that Iam unaware of? Colin I can
only add my sympathy to the words of Joey3 knowing that this is scant
comfort to you. What you lost can never be replaced. Lawyers see this
sort of thing as doing their jobs, he who pays the piper calls the tune.
It is a shame, but I heard it said that "there is the law, and there
is justice2 what you got was a sample of the law! Now as Joey3 says we
can only hope the real killer is brought to justice, because as he rightly
points out as long as this is the case women are never really safe..
Back to top
Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:16 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
Colin:
"I was pointing out that the firm of solicitors involved with the
ripper were the same firm who played an active part in legally aiding
and abetting their client, Dennis Bottomley, to pursue his crime of fraud
against me through the legal system. "
---------------------------------
" ...legally aiding and abetting their client..."
That's what they are paid to do, and they would do the same for you.
It doesn't mean it's right, but it is real life.
Thank you mickfly. I'll be brief because, as joey3 pointed out, this is
the Ripper thread, an important one which should not be diverted from,
even inadvertently.
Bottomley got a legal aid certificate on one pack of lies and a judgement,
favourable to himself, on another pack of lies.
The proof of his first set of lies was made known to his lawyers at the
very start.
It was their duty to inform the legal aid board and have the certificate
withdrawn because it was an abuse of public funds.
That is the law.
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 385
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:38 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sometimes you have to give up Colin.
Get on with, and re-build your life.
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 11
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:16 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="wizard"]To be honest this is the most interesting topic
I have read on this forum. I was unaware of many of the points raised
by Joey3 and Colin Peters I know that my eyes have been well and truly
opened! It really doesn't suprise me to find the Mp's named have done
nothing, it is a thing they all exell at. I hope enough can be done to
make sure the case is re-examined, it seems the original has gone to ground
since Sutcliffe was arrested, or are there any more twists to the tale
that Iam unaware of? Colin I can only add my sympathy to the words of
Joey3 knowing that this is scant comfort to you. What you lost can never
be replaced. Lawyers see this sort of thing as doing their jobs, he who
pays the piper calls the tune. It is a shame, but I heard it said that
"there is the law, and there is justice2 what you got was a sample
of the law! Now as Joey3 says we can only hope the real killer is brought
to justice, because as he rightly points out as long as this is the case
women are never really safe..[/quote]
I also sincerely hope this is re-investigated...After growing up in Bradford,
I left when I had my first child, because of the horror of the Ripper
reign. Even though my first child was a son, I was still a mother and
any woman at that time was at risk. As they still are now, all these years
later as the REAL RIPPER continues to laugh at the law and terrorise and
murder innocent women. Funny how in the last 12 months there has been
a lot of publicity surrounding the Ripper, and Sutcliffe is still being
named as the one . The Hoaxer has suddenly been caught! Coincidental eh?
Author Message
Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Earth
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:35 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And still no-one asks what happened to the search for the 'other killer(s)'.
Crimes from 30 years ago are suddenly surfacing for re-investigation after
new 'DNA' techniques have provided 'fresh new evidence'! Yet, after someone
is released on appeal after serving 22 years on a false murder conviction,
the murder case remains solved and closed. No-one asks 'who killed Carol
Wilkinson'? No-one has been held accountable for taking the life of a
young 20 year old girl who had her whole life ahead of her. No-one has
to answer for ruining the life of a young man, taking his freedom for
22 years, putting him through absolute hell and back. All he got was SORRY.
What a joke!!! And they don't even have the decency to look for her real
killer. How much unrest the spirit of Carol must be going through along
with all the victims of the RIPPER. And we are supposed to accept that
we are protected by the law. God is the only protector I have faith in.
Funny, too, I feel, that the Ripper Hoaxer just suddenly got caught just
when sutcliffe's convictions were being questioned!!! Yet another innocent
man I feel has been falsley convicted. Keeps the heat off the questions
being asked, and diverts the publics' attention I think! Maybe a public
demo is needed???
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 403
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:59 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see someone list some SOLID provable facts here, otherwise
it's just speculation and conjecture.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 96
Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:11 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bullshine I call it.
Just who is this Kay Lintern anyway?
Conspiracy theories..who loves um eh?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:07 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
I'd like to see someone list some SOLID provable facts here, otherwise
it's just speculation and conjecture.
Ok How about the fact that the police were trying unsuccessfully to get
doctors to go through the medical records of their patients in 1980 to
identify all men of a certain age who had the rare one in sixteen B blood
group. Traces of this rare blood group were found in semen in some of
the Ripper victims, McCann Richardson and Rytka and on the saliva which
was found on the bite marks on the left breast which were his hallmarks
on Joan Harrison in Preston and Josephine Whattaker in Halifax.
The Ripper had a large gap in the top front of his teeth.
Thats why the cops were so sure they could identify him if ever they could
get hold of him and also the reason why Sutcliffe was eliminated so many
times as the Ripper.
Because he was the copy cat killer and had assaulted all the victims mistakenly
listed in the Ripper frame, the police kept coming back to him and also
because of the fact that his crimes were in the Ripper frame, this disturbed
nutcase Peter Sutcliffe actually believed he was the Ripper.
But the West Yorkshire police whose main quarry was the Ripper knew better
and had repeatedly eliminated him until such time as he went to Sheffield
red light area, spent four days there and managed to get arrested and
started to tell those police that he was the Yorkshire Ripper.
The South Yorkshire police didnt know what the West Yorkshire police knew
and they believed they had bagged the Ripper.
The Ripper bit Joan Harrison and Josephine Whittaker on the breast identically
leaving the track of his teeth and his B blood salive so that the police
knew it was him again. His letter to Oldfield with B blood salive on the
label coincided with these crimes as they happened.
When he was arrested, the Lancashire police wouldnt accept Sutcliffe's
confessions to their murder while the west Yorkshire police wanted to
close the whole case with him.
Sutcliffe is O blood group and has not got a large gap in his teeth top
front. He actually has a tiny gap in the centre but all this forensic
evidence never saw the light of day in court because of the deal which
included no trial for his confessions.
When Laptew came to see him, his wife Sonia gave him a solid alibi for
the night of the murder of Barbara Leach outside Bradford university and
only a strool from Ripper HQ. They were in Rockafella's disco and this
alibi was verified by Laptew.
It was also the reason his wife believed he was not the Ripper because
she was well aware he was a suspect.
It only takes one time to eliminate a suspect and the reason they kept
coming back to Sutcliffe was because he resembled the photofit picture
of himself as recalled by all the girls he assaulted. The police had assumed
the Ripper hadnt time to finish these jobs off and perhaps was disturbed
by a motorist. This was a wrong assumption.
Marcella Claxton actually saw Sutcliffe masturbating after he struck her
and she described him accurately. She doesnt believe Sutcliffe is the
Ripper.
Remember Yvonne Pearson who lay buried for three months under a setee
near Lumb Lane?
The killer returned to the body a few times. Once to put a newspaper under
it with an article about the Rytka murder, and next time to expose her
arm which led to her discovery the next day. The Bradford police stated
that it was the work of a copycat killer, someone trying to emulate the
Ripper.
Someone mentioned about more murders.
Since 1981 some 120 prostitutes have been murdered in Britain most of
them unsolved and we saw how the police were out of their depth in the
recent Ipswich case where they arrested two men for the five murders and
charged one saying the other is still a suspect. This case has focused
attention on the Ripper case and hopefully there will be no deals for
confessions in this one.
Another provable fact is that Dick Holland, the cop who did the deal
for Sutcliffe's confessions was the same man who knowingly framed the
innocent Stefan Kiszko for murder. There were other deals also.
I for one dont believe Sutcliffe is the Ripper but he is a killer and
has done several murders some of which are classed in the Ripper frame
and some more which were not examined because of the unwanted spotlight
that would bring to his conviction.
The murder K Lintern referred to is one clear example of this and was
linked to the Pearson murder by the pathologist.
While the police continue to insist that Sutcliffe is the one and only
Ripper they are most reluctant to reopen this particular can of worms
because of the way they handled it in the end and it must be clear that
if Sutcliffe was framed for murders he didnt commit then the real Ripper
is still at large somewhere.
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Earth
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 1:52 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Mazdaman"]Bullshine I call it.
Just who is this Kay Lintern anyway?
Conspiracy theories..who loves um eh?[/quote]
I am a person who, as a child, saw Peter Sutcliffe in my house, chatting
with my then step father, who by the way, was also a pervert. Sutcliffe
was mending a motor on our chest freezer!!! I was also a close friend
of Carol Wilkinson and her family! So this (expletive deleted) that you
refer to is quite close to my heart. Sutcliffe, like i have already stated,
was interested in young girls, not prostitutes. I knew a lot of people
that were called in as suspects for the RIPPER. A lot of those people
gave statements that Sutcliffe was perving on the Ravenscliffe estate.
ON YOUNG GIRLS AND...NOT PROSTITUTES. I dont love conspiracy theories
in the slightest. I am though, a seeker of justice and truth, for the
sake of the future of my children. I would hate to think one of my sons
was stitched up for something the didnt do, or that one of my daughters
were murdered and that their death was so un-important that it doesnt
even warrent the time of the police to investigate who actually killed
her!!!
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Geordie Armani
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:06 pm
Post subject: get the truth out there!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hi, I have read everything pertaining to the case of the yorkshire ripper
and kate well done for trying to bring this out into the open. I have
tried repeatedly and got nowhere!
What I can't understand is that there is a killer walking free and no
one does anything about it. Sutcliffe was not the ripper, he was a copycat
killer.
GA
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Earth
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:40 am
Post subject: Re: get the truth out there!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Geordie Armani"]hi, I have read everything pertaining
to the case of the yorkshire ripper and kate well done for trying to bring
this out into the open. I have tried repeatedly and got nowhere!
What I can't understand is that there is a killer walking free and no
one does anything about it. Sutcliffe was not the ripper, he was a copycat
killer.
GA[/quote]
Thank you GA. Glad there is someone out there that doesn't think I am
a complete Conspiracy freak!! There is a book called The REAL Yorkshire
Ripper that was first published in 1989 by a chap called Noel O'Gara.
I suggest any doubters out there should obtain a copy and read the real
facts for themselves. And GA, I will keep persisting with this one until
it is re-investigated, or until i die...whichever is the sooner! I think
Sutcliffe killed my friend Carol. He was certainly a regular visitor to
Ravenscliffe at the time. I believe that is why there has been no re-investigation.
They wouldn't have to re-open the case and waste public money if they
already knew they had her killer behind bars eh? And if not, then why
are they not looking for anyone else???? They won't even visit me to take
a statement. Been trying for years to give police this info. They don't
want to know. I find that strange in itself!!!!!
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Geordie Armani
Joined: 04 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:14 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am 100% behind you girl, Noel is a good friend of mine and I have read
his book more than a few times and have also read other material relating
to the case. All the documentaries I have seen are also a bit odd.
something willl happen one of these odd days!!! I just don't know why
no one is prepared to listen to Noel or any of his campaigners for that
matter. As for conspiracy theoeries!!! this is murder and a killer walking
free , please!
GA
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:57 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Geordie Armani wrote:
I am 100% behind you girl, Noel is a good friend of mine and I have read
his book more than a few times and have also read other material relating
to the case. All the documentaries I have seen are also a bit odd.
something willl happen one of these odd days!!! I just don't know why
no one is prepared to listen to Noel or any of his campaigners for that
matter. As for conspiracy theoeries!!! this is murder and a killer walking
free , please!
GA
Bradford is a city that is dominated by the T and A for news and information.
The smaller papers in outlying areas are owned by the same people and
they support the status quo or the police line of events.
Leeds is similarly dominated by the Y P and they report crime as the courts
deal with it which is always pro police and establishment.
When miscarriages of justice take place the innocent are ignored and sidelined
and left to rot.
Meanwhile the real murderers are free and they know how the system works.
Perhaps that explains why the Real Ripper was so confident that he would
never be exposed.
Dick Holland always got the microphone and was endlessly allowed to say
they made mistakes when the reality was that they had fitted up a lunatic
copycat killer and let the real killer off the hook.
The sad thing was that they were given the identity of the real killer
but they just werent smart enough to nail him because of their methods
and infighting.
But they didnt bargain for the internet where we can all publish our stories
without having to break the barrier of censorship.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:38 am
Post subject: Re: get the truth out there!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Kay Lintern
They won't even visit me to take a statement. Been trying for years to
give police this info. They don't want to know. I find that strange in
itself!!!!![/quote]
When one of their own was shot dead in the travel agency they made such
a fuss over that and the media reported every last word of it ad nauseum.
They really pulled out all the stops in their pursuit of the killers and
they got them with the aid of the cameras. The policewoman will be a hero
forever but really she was a foolish cop walking in unarmed on a robbery
in progress. Now who else would do this only a policewoman? Even a brave
have a go man would exercise caution and wait for his chance to do something.
The chief constable Colin Cramphorn made a lot of noise at her funeral
but now he is dead also. They gave him a big send off for services rendered
mainly to himself and his cronies.
Why then if they are so diligent and caring do they not got to see Kay
and investigate her evidence?
Is she a nutter like Sutcliffe or just a caring citizen who has information
that the police need to solve a serious crime of murder?
It makes one see that they are only self serving and their service is
all a PR job dont to enhance the lie that they care about solving crime.
In that pursuit they are assisted by the T and A and the other media outlets
to (expletive deleted) the public and keep them under control.
Does anybody remember that the police were looking for an Irishman in
the early stages of the Yorkshire Ripper investigation?
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 14
Location: Earth
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:38 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes. I remember the search for a bearded Irish man with large hairy hands.
(Surprise, surprise, I hear all you critics say)! But you must remember,
my childhood was spent in Bradford, so I remember quite a lot. The newspapers
published articles on this subject on a few occasions. It was also the
subject of gossip locally. It was mentioned by some 'working girls' and
other local people that there was a bearded Irish man, who looked very
respectable and was always smartly dressed, that was a frequent visitor
to pubs in the Manningham area and was also in Lumb Lane (the red light
street at that time) on a number of occasions.
If my memory serves me right, these occasions coincided with times of
murders that were committed in the Bradford/Leeds areas.
Of those who talked about him, there were a few who stated that he made
them feel quite uncomfortable when he was around, even though he looked
smart and respectable. There was a photo fit of him published by the T
& A, and it was said that there was a 'remarkable' resemblance to
Peter Sutcliffe. That would explain the hunt for 2 or more killers eh?
They even looked alike. The search for him ceased when Sutcliffe was convicted.
Coincidence?? I certainly don't think so. Would like to hear others' opinions
on this if they remember it.
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 15
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:59 am
Post subject: Re: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a photo fit of him published by the T & A, and it was said
that there was a 'remarkable' resemblance to Peter Sutcliffe. That would
explain the hunt for 2 or more killers eh? They even looked alike. The
search for him ceased when Sutcliffe was convicted. Coincidence?? I certainly
don't think so. Would like to hear others' opinions on this if they remember
it.[/quote]
I do not recall the photo of the alleged ripper being published by the
T & A so I cannot comment on that one, but it occurs to me that, since
Sutcliffe, as the copy cat ripper, was responsible for some of the atrocities,
then, of course his own surviving victims will have given accurate descriptions
of him.
If you will check out Noel Ogaras book 'The Real Yorkshire Ripper', I
think that you will find that there were several photofits issued some
of which looked like Sutcliffe and other, nothing like.
All of the available evidence seems to lend weight to Ron Warrens assertion,
at that time, that there were, not one, but two rippers, one of whom was
the copycat of the other.
If this was not the case, how do you explain one killers blood group
(DNA)being found on one set of victims and a dfferent blood group on the
rest?
Come on the great Bradford public. This is of concern to all right minded
people. Get yourselves involved and take part in getting the record set
straight.
The issue is simple. Was Sutcliffe the real ripper or not, and if he
wasn't,
who was, and where is he now?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 17
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:47 pm
Post subject: Re: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Colin Peters Come on the great Bradford public. This is of
concern to all right minded people. Get yourselves involved and take part
in getting the record set straight.The issue is simple. Was Sutcliffe
the real ripper or not, and if he wasn't, who was, and where is he now?[/quote]
Allow me to jog your memory. When Tina Atkinson was found murdered in
her flat in Manningham the police released a photofit of a stocky bearded
Irish suspect. Can anybody remember that?
Tina was the only Ripper victim murdered indoors.
Superintendant John Domaille was the policeman who made the appeal and
the photofit was published in the T and A.
John Domaille said that that a similarly described stocky bearded man
was wanted in connection with some of the prostitute murders in Leeds.
Author Message
Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 690
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:22 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
This is all good and well but what I want to know is this.............when
will Julian Rhodes sack Colin Todd?
Its about as relevant.
nah the question there is who will shoot JR?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:57 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well my money is on one of the 25 year season ticket holders.
But back to the topic for a moment. This book by Noel 0'Gara .....how
come Billy Tracey has not sued O'gara for plastering all this stuff in
print?
How come the Police have not taken much more of an interest after reading
this book as they surely must have done.
How come there is not a public outcry over this rather than just soon
loons on an obscure internet message board bleating about miscarrages
of justice?
I think its pretty much the same as that video about 9/11 being the work
of the CIA thats doing the rounds.......a load of (expletive deleted).
.....and O'Gara stands to make lots of money from tools that buy his work
of fiction.
Excuse me if I have missed something for I could not bring myself to read
all of the website....I have a very good copy of Viz to finish off instead.
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 18
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 1:52 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[. This book by Noel 0'Gara .....how come Billy Tracey has not sued O'gara
for plastering all this stuff in print?'
Possibly, because it would not be in Traceys interests to do so???
'How come the Police have not taken much more of an interest after reading
this book as they surely must have done.'
Possibly, because it would not be in the interests of the police to do
so?
How come there is not a public outcry over this rather than just soon
loons on an obscure internet message board bleating about miscarrages
of justice?
Possibly, because the public are more in tune with, and comfortable with,
the fictional goings on in Coronation Street rather than the harsh realities
of life.
One of these realities is that the police have/had forensic evidence
in proof of Sutcliffe NOT being the Yorkshire Ripper
1.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:04 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nah my friend you'll have to do better than that. Its still internet gossip
and nothing has been proved by anyone.
F.ook me this Viz is a real good read.
So you're telling me that todays top coppers are still crapping themselves
over something that their predecessors did a quater of a century ago.
Are you lot the same people that think the moon landings were filmed
in a Hollywood basement?.....dearie me.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:56 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
Nah my friend you'll have to do better than that. Its still internet gossip
and nothing has been proved by anyone.
F.ook me this Viz is a real good read.
So you're telling me that todays top coppers are still crapping themselves
over something that their predecessors did a quater of a century ago.
Are you lot the same people that think the moon landings were filmed
in a Hollywood basement?.....dearie me. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
you are too wrapped up in Viz to be in touch with reality pal.
Read Kay Linterns posts to this thread and think about them. She lives
in Bradford and has evidence that the police are unwilling to even look
at.
If it was you who knew it, who would believe you if you told a story llike
that?
Actually the chief constable Colin Cramphorn wasnt crapping himself at
all. He dropped dead on the 29th november last when he realized that the
whole police conspiracy to frame the Ripper and John Humble was in the
public domain.
do you think the police are going to explain to the public how they framed
a lunatic as the Ripper?
They certainly satisfied the public and people like you by convincing
them that they had caught the Ripper and in a way that was great for you
but what about the other victims and the public who are still at risk?
Now go back to Viz and dream on in your fantasy world but there are some
amongst us who live in the real world and want the real killers brought
to justice.
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mixtar
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 141
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:10 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Actually the chief constable Colin Cramphorn wasnt crapping himself at
all. He dropped dead on the 29th november last when he realized that the
whole police conspiracy to frame the Ripper and John Humble was in the
public domain.
That was a bit of a severe move , wasnt it? The cancer was a total irelevence
then?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:30 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed a good point Mixtar. All this rubbish is heresay and internet scaremongering.
Cramphorn died of cancer not because he had found out that sh.ite like
this was swimming around in cyberland.
Now until anyone actually provides any hard evidence I think its best
left alone.....Peter Sutcliffe was and is The Yorkshire Ripper and justice
was done...end of.
Thats my own opinion of course and I'm quite happy with it.
By the way how come no one has gone to Sky News for just one example with
this stuff as I'm sure they would give you more time than I obviously
do.
Read this .execulink/~kbrannen/tracey.htm
Place www at the front and .com after .execulink
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:19 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mixtar wrote:
.
That was a bit of a severe move , wasnt it? The cancer was a total irelevence
then? :roll:[/quote]
he was being treated for prostate cancer as are thousands of men of 50
but he died suddenly on the job.
Cramphorn had the best of medical care and advice and if it was terminal
a successor whould have been appointed well before the fateful day. He
expected to be in office for several months more before his retirement.
His death was not from the cancer.
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mixtar
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 141
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:40 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
he was being treated for prostate cancer as are thousands of men of 50
but he died suddenly on the job.
No he didnt, hed given up.What are you saying? He was worried to death
of being found out? The fact that he was terminal didnt take precedence
in his thinking in any way? If you say so.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:32 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mixtar wrote:
Quote:
he was being treated for prostate cancer as are thousands of men of 50
but he died suddenly on the job.
No he didnt, hed given up.What are you saying? He was worried to death
of being found out? The fact that he was terminal didnt take precedence
in his thinking in any way? If you say so. :roll:
He got this letter on the morning he dropped dead. Before he collapsed
he had summoned McLean to his office and got into a blazing row with him
and naturally Mc blamed him being the boss who gave him the order to arrest
and frame the patsy Castree. Castree is still on remand and has not even
entered a plea yet.
THE RONALD CASTREE STITCH-UP IN PROGRESS
To Mr Ronald Castree
Remand prisoner in Armley Prison.
Dear Ronald,
I wrote a book about the Yorkshire Ripper and the Molseed murder features
in it.
I am writing to you directly because I know you have no friends where
you are now and please write back to say if you got my letter.
Under article 6 (1) of the European convention on human rights your human
rights would be breached if the prison authorities prevented you writing
to anybody or receiving letters. Keep that firmly in mind as they may
try to keep you isolated in order to work on you.
I know you are innocent of the charges against you for reasons I will
explain.
I’m sure you heard of the Birmingham six?
The Guildford four?
Stefan Kiszko?
Judith Ward?
Anthony Steel?
And many other innocent people who have been forced to confess to crimes.
Some corrupt police have ways of making you confess by breaking your will.
I understand you were questioned about another matter and that was probably
used against you. They pick on vulnerable people and try to get confessions
to crimes they really need to solve in any way possible. McLean has already
been to the victim’s family and your own family and
been brainwashing them that you are the killer to turn them all against
you in order to leave you with no support.
Let’s face it Ronald, if they had the hard evidence
that you were the killer of Lesley Molseed why would they interrogate
you for 48 hours and why even ask for a confession? They have no hard
evidence. All that talk about DNA is total fabrication designed to convince
you that you will be convicted and then they will offer you a deal with
leniency and promise you a short sentence and no trial but only if you
confess. They haven’t an ounce of real evidence against
you and you are vulnerable simply because you have no alibi since it happened
31 years ago.
Kiszko actually had a sound alibi but she was on holiday in Italy during
his sham trial and his useless lawyers never even protested this fact.
The poor fellow was clearly set up and you are in line for the same treatment
now.
They tried to convince Mr Terry Hawkshaw that he was the Yorkshire Ripper
and told him he may not even be aware of his Jeckyl and Hyde personality
when he was in his normal mind.
So relax Ronald I can help you to prove your innocence. I know you are
not responsible for that murder simply because there is a strong case
that Peter Sutcliffe is the killer of Lesley Molseed and the police are
desperate to conceal that line of enquiry, because they have fooled everyone
into thinking that he is the Ripper rather than a lunatic copycat killer
who was framed by them and they let the real Ripper get away. They need
to convict a fall guy to get that murder off the books. Perhaps that explains
why there has been such a lot of interest in this particular 31 year old
murder when there are hundreds of unsolved murders in Britain every year.
This one is special because of the Ripper.
Sutcliffe actually assaulted a 14 year old girl in Silsden near Bradford
about two months before the Molseed murder. He masturbated over her also.
His semen was put under the microscope and he is reported to be nearly
sterile. He was unable to have children.
Would you think that there was more than one lunatic who masturbated on
young girls, in that area and at that time?
You are in danger of becoming a second Kiszko now because there are a
few corrupt cops who are desperate to close this case for good, just to
protect themselves for letting the real Ripper get away.
The Real Yorkshire Ripper, Billy Tracey, a man who used to work for me
is still at large and living freely in London.
They are capable of framing you by saying they have DNA evidence that
is so infinitely minute that nobody could verify it, but remember that
the evidence if they have any, has been so contaminated with chemicals
etc by so many experts and handlers over many years that it is impossible
to prove, but they will not tell you that. All the evidence was destroyed
about 15 years ago probably by Dick Holland who was going to trial himself
for framing Kiszko and now they are saying that this evidence has reappeared.
They will lie like hell to convince you that you did it and that they
can prove it, even if they haven’t a scrap of proof.
Don’t fall into their trap.
They framed Sutcliffe as the Ripper.
They framed Richard Webb as the killer of Josephine Gross Nicklaus.
They framed Anthony Steel as the killer of Carole Wilkinson.
They framed Stefan Kiszko as the killer of Lesley Molseed.
They framed Judith Ward as the bus bomber.
They framed John Humble as the hoaxer.
They would love to frame Humble as the killer of Joan Harrison in
Preston.
Now they are trying to frame you as the killer of Lesley
Molseed because that unsolved murder appears to have Sutcliffe's prints
all over it. It’s not an impressive record for the
West Yorkshire police, so bear it in mind.
Now the main points that proved you are innocent are as follows and you
should study them carefully.
1. Alleged evidence of new techniques of getting a DNA profile is a blatant
lie to fool suspects into confessing. Particularly as in this case the
evidence, ie clothes of the victim was destroyed.
2. After 31 years anyway the sample if indeed we were to believe that
there was some still in existence, would be unidentifiable because of
the time lapse and natural erosion, obsolescence and decomposition of
everything over time in this natural world we inhabit. They will tell
you otherwise and they won’t tell you about how vulnerable
any evidence is to contamination by police handlers, laboratory technicians
or store keepers who organize the boxes of evidence.
3. Records of the semen that was used to convict Kiszko could be used
by you to prove that it doesn’t match your semen type
because as I recall that semen was almost sterile while Kiszko was completely
sterile. Your semen is most likely very prolific and the proof is that
you have several children. Kiszko was incapable of producing children
by his semen. That evidence alone would eliminate you for this murder
and this is something McLean overlooked in his rush to frame you.
4. 48 hours of interrogation. They said ‘questioning’
but you know that is not the correct word for it. If they had the evidence
to prove you were the killer why question you at all?
5. The team of police and scientists who are involved in your arrest are
the same team who framed John Humble with fake DNA as the Ripper hoaxer.
Humble was a drunk and he attempted to murder his own brother and that’s
how they forced him to cooperate and confess to being the hoaxer but he
did not write the letters.
6. The rogue cop, Max McLean, most likely planted your DNA on something
they claim is belonging to the victim, so watch out for him. There are
a lot of decent cops out there trying to do their best but a few bent
ass holes like him screw them all up and does them all a grave disservice.
He is controlling your case, just as Chris Gregg controlled Humble’s
case.
7. Can you remember the car you had if any at the time of the murder?
They were looking for a Morris?, a white car with red markings of some
kind?. The killer had to be a motorist to get to that outlying area. Perhaps
you didn’t even have a car or a drivers license then?
8. I read that your lawyer is Jonathan Rose. If that is true you need
a different lawyer. He co-wrote a book with a policeman in 1997, after
Kiszko died, blaming Raymond Hewlett as the killer of Lesley Molseed.
He was wrong with that too but it was done at the time to take suspicion
away from Sutcliffe. Be careful Ronald, you are surrounded by poisonous
snakes. The only reason they couldn’t charge Hewlett
at that time was because all the evidence was destroyed but now it seems
McLean has personally resurrected it and I tell you he is a blatant liar.
He is used to this all through his career so its easy for him to lie because
he has gotten away with so many stitch ups in the courts and lying to
the press.
9. The sub microscopic DNA they claim to have is a fabrication. How could
they get that if they don’t have the original semen
samples that were used in the Kiszko case to convict him? This new alleged
DNA is supposed to be an infallible print but it has to come from the
semen left on the victims clothing and that shows a sperm count different
to yours. It’s a lie and they don’t
have any such thing so you let them prove it to a jury and their bluff
will be called. However they will drop the charges before that happens.
If there was enough honest police in the force they would arrest the rogue
McLean for attempting to frame you before it goes any further not to mention
the way he has misled them.
10. It was reported that you were arrested nine months before this latest
arrest on another matter and DNA was then taken from you. If their DNA
evidence was half as good as they pretend it is, why did it take them
nine months to identify you as the killer? For the past three years they
have been saying that they can eliminate a suspect very quickly with a
simple swab test.
Ronald, you are in serious trouble with a gang of liars who will lie and
cheat just to get a conviction and get that murder off their unsolved
list. Will you please write to me when you get this letter and I would
be willing to travel to Leeds and meet you but you must give consent first.
Finally, be careful who you talk to there as McLean is liable to plant
a snitch in with you to testify against you and he will lie that you confessed
the Molseed murder to him if he is promised early release.
Noel O’Gara
PS.
I have sent a copy of this letter to your MP’s, the
judge, the local newspapers and other media and also to the Chief Constable
of West Yorkshire, Colin Cramphorn.
Colin Cramphorn, a fit man of 50 dropped dead after he read it because
he knew at that moment that the coordinated stitch up that he had been
instrumental in supervising of John Humble and Ronald Castree was about
to fall apart. Nobody drops dead from prostate cancer and especially not
a fit policeman who would be getting the best of medical attention and
who would have left his job if it was advanced. Cramphorn died of shock
and horror with a seizure after a blazing row with Det Chief Superintendant
Max McLean who was blaming him.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:41 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You need to see a doctor my friend or you're gonna end up swapping jokes
with Cramphorn if you believe in that s.hit.
I tell you what I'll send you a copy of Viz for free......makes better
reading now its time for the gym for me...thats how important this rubbish
is...next please
Are you and Kay Lentil on commission for sales of O'Gara's book by any
chance?
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Earth
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:46 am
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
You need to see a doctor my friend or you're gonna end up swapping jokes
with Cramphorn if you believe in that s.hit.
I tell you what I'll send you a copy of Viz for free......makes better
reading now its time for the gym for me...thats how important this rubbish
is...next please
Are you and Kay Lentil on commission for sales of O'Gara's book by any
chance?
If you are so uninterested in this post, why are you so intent on persistantly
undermining those who are genuine in their concerns about miscarriages
of justice??? I can only say that Viz is certainly a good read for people
of your mentality. I suggest you go back to your favourite comic mag and
leave this site for the caring, responsible adults who would like to see
'justice' acted out in a proper manner. But then, you must have some interest!!
You do persist in returning to this site with some smarmy comment. You
don't seem to read things thoroughly either...Kay Lentil????? But then
its the same as everything else you have written eh? Wrong!!!! Commission
for sale of Noel O'Gara's book!!! Justice for the living and the dead
would be a more appropriate comment. And protection from the scum of the
earth who are allowed to roam freely...That is obviously of no interest
to you though is it.
_________________
Guidance, peace & love to all. To the followers of Satan, "the
wicked shall get it's reward & the just shall rise again".
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:06 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I put "Kay Lentil" to take the pish dear
Noel O'Gara's book is full of holes...he makes things up to fit the facts
that are known. Did you have a look at the page I gave the link too?....the
one that states that two of the attacks carried out by the "Irish
suspect who DROVE away in a Land Rover....this was of course BEFORE O'Gara
taught Billy Tracey to drive....doh
I must give O'Gara some credit though...he's a storyteller of biblical
proportions but I'm afraid its a work of fiction.
There is no huge conspiracy involving Police,Lawyers or Micky Mouse and
you my dear really ought to stop watching so much TV.
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Earth
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:53 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
I put "Kay Lentil" to take the pish dear
Noel O'Gara's book is full of holes...he makes things up to fit the facts
that are known. Did you have a look at the page I gave the link too?....the
one that states that two of the attacks carried out by the "Irish
suspect who DROVE away in a Land Rover....this was of course BEFORE O'Gara
taught Billy Tracey to drive....doh
I must give O'Gara some credit though...he's a storyteller of biblical
proportions but I'm afraid its a work of fiction.
There is no huge conspiracy involving Police,Lawyers or Micky Mouse and
you my dear really ought to stop watching so much TV.
This coming from someone whos favourite read is VIZ!
And here you are again, with a pretty speedy reply, to a topic in which
you 'have no interest'!!!! I ask again, why do you follow it so closely,
if you have so little interest? The majority of TV is fiction, which is
why i choose not to watch it the majority of the time. I certainly am
not guilty of watching too much as you state. What facts do you have to
prove their is no huge conspiracy??? I know what I know as FACT not FICTION.
I lived with the facts then, and I live with them now. Regardless of what
you think is fiction in Noel's book, the FACT remains that innocent people
served much of their lives in prison for offences they DID NOT COMMIT.
This has been proved. The FACT remains that people have been murdered
and their attackers remain unconvicted of these offences. Do you, my dear
misguided fool, think this is acceptable? Maybe you do. After all, you
are not someone who takes the slightest interst in topics like this are
you? Lets hope you are not personally affected by the injustices of this
world at any time. But then, what goes around comes around so take care
what you are giving out, lest you get it back tenfold, as states the law
of the Kharma and the Universe. I would fear this law more than I fear
the laws of men.
_________________
Guidance, peace & love to all. To the followers of Satan, "the
wicked shall get it's reward & the just shall rise again".
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:05 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know who you are now dear...you're that old woman who wanders around
Morrison at 5 Lane Ends shouting to everyone about The Lord and sh.ite
like that.
Where are your FACTS?
Where is your PROOF?
Answer my question about the link I gave in my previous post please.
You say innocent people have been sent down and I say yes they probably
have....but not Peter Sutcliffe. He's as guilty as they come and you prattling
on about injustice and the will of Allah or whatever aint gonna change
a thing.
get on the tele....get Paul Foot involved(I take it you have heard of
him?) if you feel so strongly instead of just whining on an internet message
board.
You have my interest now Mrs Lentil burger as I'm intrigued as to how
one who seems intelligent is so misguided.
Jesus saves........but Moses nets the rebound eh?
Author Message
Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Earth
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:54 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
I know who you are now dear...you're that old woman who wanders around
Morrison at 5 Lane Ends shouting to everyone about The Lord and sh.ite
like that.
Where are your FACTS?
Where is your PROOF?
Answer my question about the link I gave in my previous post please.
You say innocent people have been sent down and I say yes they probably
have....but not Peter Sutcliffe. He's as guilty as they come and you prattling
on about injustice and the will of Allah or whatever aint gonna change
a thing.
get on the tele....get Paul Foot involved(I take it you have heard of
him?) if you feel so strongly instead of just whining on an internet message
board.
You have my interest now Mrs Lentil burger as I'm intrigued as to how
one who seems intelligent is so misguided.
Jesus saves........but Moses nets the rebound eh?
Yes, I read the link you provided. Conflicting statements I see by the
authors. David Yallop states Emily Jackson sat on a wall and chatted with
a friend, namely Maria Sellars, who was passing by. Maria pointed out
the jeep. Emily 'strolled' to the jeep and Maria watched them drive away.
Roger Cross states that Maria Sellars sat on the wall and on seeing Emily
Jackson, exchanged a few pleasantries. Emily left and 'walked quickly'
to a 'green' hard-topped landrover. The press cutting states it was a
dirty 'grey' landrover. So, who sat on the wall? Emily or Maria? Was the
landrover green or grey? No two pieces of information match. You point
out something so conflicting, which obviously you use as back up to discredit
Noel, and your back up information also comes from authors of different
books written about Peter Sutcliffe, yet Noel's book is the only one you
deem as 'rubbish'! I have never stated Sutcliffe is not a murderer, nor
that he doesn't deserve to be where he is. I hope he rots in hell for
his crimes. I am also not a religious freak shouting outside Morrisons.
I am a concerned member of the public who would like to assist in righting
some wrongs. Is that so hard for you to comprehend?
_________________
Guidance, peace & love to all. To the followers of Satan, "the
wicked shall get it's reward & the just shall rise again".
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:20 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're mental if you think anyone other than a tick Oirishman is going
to listen to you about this.
You say this and I say that and to be honest Mrs Loon Burger you have
yet to convince me as to anything. Just because you claim this stuff is
true does not make it so.
Maybe I see things in a rather simplistic way but you dont see anyone
rushing to aid you in your quest do you?
Dont you think you would be better served by taking your concerns to a
higher power than a rather obscure internet message board. If there is
any substance in this make them listen and dont be just fobbed off as
it seems you have been.
I think there lies the crux of the matter really....you see out here in
cyberland one can be exactly who one wants to be. I could pretend to be
Noel O'Gara himself and you would never know for sure.
You offer me no concrete proof and evidence other than heresay.
Colin Cramphorn died from prostrate cancer and nothing more. I ought to
know...he was my Father.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:58 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
You're mental if you think anyone other than a tick Oirishman is going
to listen to you about this.
You say this and I say that and to be honest Mrs Loon Burger you have
yet to convince me as to anything. Just because you claim this stuff is
true does not make it so.
Maybe I see things in a rather simplistic way but you dont see anyone
rushing to aid you in your quest do you?
Dont you think you would be better served by taking your concerns to a
higher power than a rather obscure internet message board. If there is
any substance in this make them listen and dont be just fobbed off as
it seems you have been.
I think there lies the crux of the matter really....you see out here in
cyberland one can be exactly who one wants to be. I could pretend to be
Noel O'Gara himself and you would never know for sure.
You offer me no concrete proof and evidence other than heresay.
Colin Cramphorn died from prostrate cancer and nothing more. I ought to
know...he was my Father.
It seems to me that you are the thick in this exchange Mr Viz.
Firstly it appears that you havent made the observation that joey3 and
Noel O'Gara are one and the same person, the joey version being a cyberspace
gadfly as you imply.
This is not an obscure message board. It is the only one serving Bradford
and Bradford was the focus of the Ripper's attention and the home of Peter
Sutcliffe and his bent lawyer, now judge Kerry MacGill, so it is very
relevant.
Also Ronald Castree will be in court in Bradford shortly to be tried for
murder on bogus fabricated evidence.
As for Colin Cramphorn being your father we only have the word of a cyber
gadfly for this and by your own observations that would not be much use
in authentication.
Now even if we were to believe that you were the son of the chief constable
what makes you think that he would confide his confidential criminal secrets
in you or any other member of his own family?
More likely you would be the last to know anything about his problems
on the job.
but just in case you are not lying, try to ask Max McLean what happened
that day in November and see if he gives you a straight answer and remember
that policemen are trained and skilled in the dark art of lying.
It is an occupational necessity for them so that they are always one up
on their criminal contacts and so it is hard to get truth out of them
or to put it another way you never know when they are telling you the
truth.
Thats why you need to stick to facts like the blood group and bite marks
and the fact that the police knew that there were two killers involved
in the Ripper enquiry. they only got one, and I say he was the copycat
killer.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:51 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I make the observation that both you and Mrs Lentil Burger are paranoid
about Police corruption though.....that much is indeed clear.
This message board may serve the city of Bradford but its not exactly
teeming with members is it?...and by that I mean members with any clout.
I dont think thre likes of Bahr At,No Surrender and Wizard ect are the
kind of people to be preaching to hoping to change the course of history
are they?
This really is a no brainer Joey......and of that you and Mrs Lentil burger
are indeed the guilty ones if you think you're going to right some horrendous
wrongs by posting your idiotic aspersions on this forum.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 690
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:58 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and exactly how many ripper style killings have there been since Sutcliffe
was arrested?
Point to one and I might bother reading the pack of lies being pushed
by these idiots.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:30 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That my friend is the best thing you have ever said on this forum. You
go up immeasurably in my humble opinion.
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wizard
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 183
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:21 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
I make the observation that both you and Mrs Lentil Burger are paranoid
about Police corruption though.....that much is indeed clear.
This message board may serve the city of Bradford but its not exactly
teeming with members is it?...and by that I mean members with any clout.
I dont think thre likes of Bahr At,No Surrender and Wizard ect are the
kind of people to be preaching to hoping to change the course of history
are they?
This really is a no brainer Joey......and of that you and Mrs Lentil burger
are indeed the guilty ones if you think you're going to right some horrendous
wrongs by posting your idiotic aspersions on this forum.
I don't really think that you know what you are talking about at all.
You try to discredit Kay Lintern and call her names, you say that no one
has a clue who anyone else is,then you to run other people down and set
yourself up as some sort of authority. All this from a Viz reader, perhaps
you should call it a day and stick to your comics, then in your own self
righteous little world you can always be the undisputed top dog. Oh I
am so glad that you and Baht At are now good mates, that will be of course
until he disagrees with you again!! Just for your information I have not
really said anything about this subject other than it had some interesting
theories, having only visited a few time, on the other hand for someone
who thinks it is all rubbish you seem to be totally obsessed with it.
I must add that I had a lot of respect for Colin Cramphorn in his job,
if you are indeed his son it's a pity I would not be able to say the same
of you.
Last edited by wizard on Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:55 am; edited 2 times in
total
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 24
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:22 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
That my friend is the best thing you have ever said on this forum. You
go up immeasurably in my humble opinion.
but not in mine. If you take the trouble to refer to the web site you
will see reports on some of the murders committed since Sutcliffe's conviction.
study the Castree case and the Ipswich case for the recent ones.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 690
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:44 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
Mazdaman wrote:
That my friend is the best thing you have ever said on this forum. You
go up immeasurably in my humble opinion.
but not in mine. If you take the trouble to refer to the web site you
will see reports on some of the murders committed since Sutcliffe's conviction.
study the Castree case and the Ipswich case for the recent ones.
Well I can't see that they are ripper style - but I guess if you want
to believe nonsense then you will believe they are.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:04 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doh....I dont really read Viz you dimmock ...call it me making a statement
concerning my dismissiveness of this whole affair.
How can anyone say i'm obsessed with this thread?.....I'm not the one
bleating on about mis carrages of justice and "all Police are bent..yadda
yadda yadda" am I?
I merely want to keep this subject going as I think its really funny.
Oh and by the way I'm not Camphorns Son either......I was re-enforcing
my previous point saying that on T'internet one can be whoever one wants
to be.
Do you get it now Mr O'Gara?
More to the point no one but I seems remotely interested in this subject
and does that not tell you something?
If you want my advice(and here's where you say you dont )...concentrate
on writing works of fiction for its what you're good at....and even that
is a matter of opinion.
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Black Magic
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 27
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:08 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Baht At wrote:
and exactly how many ripper style killings have there been since Sutcliffe
was arrested?
Point to one and I might bother reading the pack of lies being pushed
by these idiots.
Err, weren't there a load of prostitutes killed in the Ipswich area as
recently as 3 months ago.
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Ale_Cart
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 3
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:15 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Black Magic wrote:
Baht At wrote:
and exactly how many ripper style killings have there been since Sutcliffe
was arrested?
Point to one and I might bother reading the pack of lies being pushed
by these idiots.
Err, weren't there a load of prostitutes killed in the Ipswich area as
recently as 3 months ago.
They may have been murdered but the were not RIPPED.
Big difference voodoo man.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:16 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To Black Magic....That point has been made dude...please try and keep
up
I believe they have indeed caught a man and charged him with these offences......no
wait a minute...maybe he has been fitted up gov'ner as well
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Kay Lintern
Joined: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 18
Location: Earth
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:50 pm
Post subject: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
Doh....I dont really read Viz you dimmock ...call it me making a statement
concerning my dismissiveness of this whole affair.
How can anyone say i'm obsessed with this thread?.....I'm not the one
bleating on about mis carrages of justice and "all Police are bent..yadda
yadda yadda" am I?
I merely want to keep this subject going as I think its really funny.
Oh and by the way I'm not Camphorns Son either......I was re-enforcing
my previous point saying that on T'internet one can be whoever one wants
to be.
Do you get it now Mr O'Gara?
More to the point no one but I seems remotely interested in this subject
and does that not tell you something?
If you want my advice(and here's where you say you dont )...concentrate
on writing works of fiction for its what you're good at....and even that
is a matter of opinion.
No. You are not the one bleating on about miscarriages of judgement, but
you are the one who persistantly undermines anyone else who is actually
just questioning unsafe convictions. I sincerely hope Colin Cramphorn's
son is not a part of this debate. I'm sure he would not take kindly to
your comments as he has just lost his father..Everybody is someone's child/parent.
Yes. Anyone could be who they want to be, which is why I put my own name
to this forum. I don't want to portray myself as anyone other than who
I am. As for you keeping this forum going because 'you think its funny',
well, you must be some kind of psycho if you think this is fun. With over
2000 views, I think we are getting some interest, if not replies. 'Obssessed'...you
certainly are my friend. Why post so many views otherwise??? Unless of
course it is to dicredit those who are not so much obssessed, but more
so, concerned, in discerning right from wrong. Or, of course, to cover
for those who are in the wrong in the first place. Do you want to put
your real i.d to this debate? Noel and myself have!!!
_________________
Guidance, peace & love to all. To the followers of Satan, "the
wicked shall get it's reward & the just shall rise again".
Back to top
Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 178
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:11 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does putting your true name on file here elevate you above everyone else
who chooses not to do so?
How very brave of you.
A quick scan of the internet this evening reveals that Mr O'Gara has been
swamping various forums with his "views" cough cough on Police
and judicial corruption for quite a while now. The results have been pretty
much the same as on here which comes as no surprise to me.
You really need to get an investigative journo like Paul Foot involved
in this stuff. Has he been approached?...has he waved you lot away with
a circular motion of his right index finger to his temple?
Look Kay I'm interested of course. Thats why I'm still reading O'Gara's
website and various other things.
But you have yet to convince me that it is anything other than the rantings
of someone out to make a name for himself...and money naturally.
Of course you're not going to bother proving anything to me as I'm a nobody
in the great scheme of things..that I understand...but can you not understand
my scepticism?
Author Message
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 25
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:40 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Mazdaman"]Does putting your true name on file here elevate
you above everyone else who chooses not to do so?
How very brave of you.
A quick scan of the internet this evening reveals that Mr O'Gara has been
swamping various forums with his "views" cough cough on Police
and judicial corruption for quite a while now. The results have been pretty
much the same as on here which comes as no surprise to me.
You really need to get an investigative journo like Paul Foot involved
in this stuff. Has he been approached?...has he waved you lot away with
a circular motion of his right index finger to his temple?
Look Kay I'm interested of course. Thats why I'm still reading O'Gara's
website and various other things.
But you have yet to convince me that it is anything other than the rantings
of someone out to make a name for himself...and money naturally.
Of course you're not going to bother proving anything to me as I'm a nobody
in the great scheme of things..that I understand...but can you not understand
my scepticism?[/quote]
of course we understand your scepticism. When I first tumbled to the fact
that my former employee was the Ripper I was dumbfounded, shocked and
terrified and spent the next three days trying to prove to myself that
I was wrong and trying to find evidence that put him in my home at the
time of the last murder.
but it all stacked up against him and I only found more and more reasons
to confirm that he was the Ripper but what a prospect of having to try
to explain to Uk policemen that an Irishman living in Ireland was the
Ripper?
Who was going to believe that? How could I get this amazing man across?
I didnt know that they were looking for an Irishman identical to him two
years earlier. I only found that out after Sutcliffe's trial in one of
the books written about the ripper by David Yallop who had him as his
number one suspect until the arrest of Sutcliffe.
Anyway Mr Ronald Warren a retired Bradford councillor who was deputy
chairman of the West Yorkshire police authority at the time of the hunt
for the Ripper has confirmed on Yorkshire TV last October that the members
all knew from briefings by the pollice that there were two killers involved
in the Ripper murder enquiry. Obviously the Ripper being the main man
and a second killer who was either an accomplice or a copycat killer.
Sutcliffe was responsible for some of the murders and at the time of his
arrest in Sheffield he had been eliminated no less than twelve times by
detectives because his blood group didnt match the Ripper's.
So were these detectives nutters also and is your fellow senior citizen
Ron Warren another nutter like me?
I think not.
I say that the public have been swindled by a few bent cops and the others
kept silent allowing the real Ripper to get away scot free.
Why would they offer Sutcliffe a 10 year deal if he really was the Ripper?
you would expect a sentence like that for a rape crime but not for the
man who had terrorised the Uk for five years and committed more than a
dozen horrific murders.
Now Mazdaman, both Kay and myself have stood up and are counted and if
we didnt do that what chance would we have of making such bizarre allegations
if we had names like you?
Does that explain why we are not afraid to be identified?
you read comics and call us all sorts of names and our allegations fictional
and it appears to me that you live in a fictional world and refuse to
face reality. Its easy and cheap to be critical of anybody.
Just think about the victims my friend and dont be so quick to put your
trust in bent cops like Dick Holland who framed the innocent Stefan Kiszko
and now Ronald Castree is being set up in Bradford for the same murder
as Kiszko did a life term inside for.
Castree could be you or any other patsy who might be easy meat for a bent
cop to stitch up.
He has not even entered a plea as of now despite being detained since
November. Where is the justice in that?
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 19
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:34 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You really need to get an investigative journo like Paul Foot involved
in this stuff. Has he been approached?...has he waved you lot away with
a circular motion of his right index finger to his temple?
I have watched this posting for a while now without seeking to intervene,
but Kay, you really must stop responding to this marvelman, stuporman,
or whatever name he wants to call himself, whilst gutlessly concealing
his true identity.
He professes to be knowlegable and yet seemingly is not aware that Paul
Foot passed away in the summer of 2004.
He was a great guy, a chap who I have had contact with in the past, and
the truth is that, even though he might have been inclined to, it might
well have been that he had too much on his plate to take on yet another
case of blatant injustice.
There's only so much that one man can do and it is a sad fact of life
that there are not enough investigative journalists of his kind in this
world.
Regarding the hard evidence which marvelman, stuporman, longs to see.
and yet refuses to see. --- It is well recorded from the media at that
time, including the T & A, that, because of forensic evidence available
at that time it was certain that there were two 'Rippers ' active at that
time.
Either that, or Sutcliffe was a unique individual who could leave a blood
group O on some victims, and B secretor on others.
Some guy eh?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 25
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:20 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Colin Peters Regarding the hard evidence which marvelman,
stuporman, longs to see.
and yet refuses to see. --- It is well recorded from the media at that
time, including the T & A, that, because of forensic evidence available
at that time it was certain that there were two 'Rippers ' active at that
time.
Either that, or Sutcliffe was a unique individual who could leave a blood
group O on some victims, and B secretor on others.
Some guy eh?[/quote]
The Birmingham 6, The Guildford 4, the Maguire 7, Judith Ward, Stefan
Kiszko, Anthony Steel to name but a few who were forced to confess to
murders that they didnt commit and alongside them is the name of Peter
Sutcliffe, not because he is innocent but because he is just a copycat
killer who confessed to all the Ripper's murders in addition to his own
4 killings in a deal with those same bent police officers who framed Kiszko,
Ward and Steel.
Meanwhile the real bombers and the real Ripper remain free but the police
have solved the crimes.
The public are happy and life goes on but not for the victims.
Back to top
Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:56 pm
Post subject: Peter Sutcliffe etc
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear All,
I have been reading these postings with interest, representing, as they
do, the two extremes of this debate. Neither of which I feel has emerged
with the dignity they no doubt deserve.
I do fear that there has been an element of balance which has been lost.
I have read Mr O'Gara's book, as well as having a good knowledge of the
Kiszco case. In the past I have e-mailed Mr O'Gara twice to express reservatiosn
about his theory that Sutcliffe was the murderer of Lesley Molseed (I
had doubts due to the timing of the attack which seemed far to soon for
a copycat killer, the MO being that of a stabbing not a bludgeoning, and
the fact that Lesley was just 11 (and looked much younger) not fitting
the victim profile.)
It saddened me that Mr O'Gara in his first replied suggested that I ust
either know the Molseed family or be close to the police, neither of which
is true. On the second occasion (prompting by the charging of Castree)
I received no reply at all.
Mr O'Gara's book is clearly interesting, and provides much food for thought.
There may well be reason to think that Sutcliffe was not responsile for
all the killings, or that he may have been a copycat killer. This does
not, however, mean that Mr O'Gara has to be right on anything and everythig
on which he writes, or that those who express opposing beliefs or theories
are somehow either part of the widespread conspiracy or are otherwise
too stupid to understand.
The fact remains, that this is a conspiracy theory (and I do not mean
that in the dismissive way it is often used, but simply as a statement
of fact). Mr O'Gara theorises that Tracey is the real ripper, and that
there is a conspiracy to cover up the fact.
Personally, I do not believe that Sutcliffe was the Molseed murderer,
for the reasons outlined below. Furthermore, it would be an astonishingly
risky thing todo for the police to now fit up an innocent man so long
after the event, with all the risks that entails, rather than letting
sleepig dogs lie. This is particularly so given that there were plenty
of easier more obvious targets out there they could have plumped for.
Of course, Sutcliffe not being the Molseed murderer would prove Mr O'Gara
wrong on everything else.
The fact remains that every case throws up unanswered questions, and
where there are holes theories are apt to flourish. Additionally, of course,
it is always more difficult to disprove a conspiracy than prove it, this
will always be a feature of the genre.
I wish Mr O'Gara well, and hope that he seeks to pique the interest of
the likes of Bob Woofenden (probably spelt that wrongly). However, no
matter with what conviction he holds his views with, there is little doubt
that what he has got is far short of anything that would begin to approach
securing a conviction, from an evidential point of view.
Nonetheless, Mr O'Gara deserves respect and admiration for his conviction
and energy. Equally those who seek to disagree should be listend to and
engaged with. To do otherwise would be to plunder the very same depths
as those at whom criticism is levelled, e.g corrupt and blinkered police
officers.
Truth is a word that is all to easy to talk about, but all to often difficult
to be cerain about. Not all people convicted of a crime are guilty, and
not everyone who wins their appeal was innocent of the crime. The best
we can do is keep vigilant and never just accept what we are told, whoever
it is doing the telling. Only that way can we hope that truth will be
set free. All to often, however, and perhaps inevitably, truth is something
which we can only, at best, guess at.
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:01 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,Sorry, just to clarify. When I wrote 'would prove Mr O'Gara wrong on
everything else' I of course meant 'would not prove Mr O'Gara wrong on
everything else'.
Sorry for this typo, and all the others. I really should proof read more.
Author Message
Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 279
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:40 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="joey3"][quote="Mazdaman"]No the author has
indeed signed it. The one and only copy was donated so i was told.
Come on Bahr Tat be sensible for once....what does that tell you?[/quote]
The author told you that Castree would plead not guilty and he has just
done so earlier today.
guess I should have signed it with my real name to convince some of you
doubters.
you can read about it tomorrow on your Telegraph and Argus.[/quote]
Eh??...I thought you had Mr Mouse
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:23 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
Justice Seeker wrote:
In reality, I don't think that it is really that improbable that there
ay have been two vilent sex offenders in the North West of England at
that time. After all, your theories about Sutcliffe being a copy cat killer
is itself predicated on the idea that there were two murderous sexual
predators operating in the area. Again, as I say, Lesley was not battered
but stabed to death.
The white car link is interesting, but how many white cars would have
been out there, or white cars with red markings? There were also, as is
always the case, a number of other types and colours of vehicles the police
were interested in.
I will follow the Castree trial with interest.
In the meantime, there is something which I think we should all bear
in mind, and is a quote I read recently. It goes:
"The spirit of liberty is the spirit that is not too sure that it's
right"
I think this is something that everyone should bear in mind, whatever
side of a particular divide or debate we're on. To do otherwise would
be to fall into the same trap as the likes of Roy Meadow David Southall
and numerous police officers, who all 'knew' they were right, but for
whom history proved them wrong.
you are correct in saying that there were two killers the Ripper and a
copycat killer but bear in mind that the MO of both was completely different.
The Ripper picked his victims with calculation and battered them with
a few killer blows to the head. then he mutilated them in a unique way
and rearranged their clothes so that the police were in no doubt that
it was him. In addition he started to write to them and fulfilled his
promises as the murders progressed.
Sutcliffe on the other hand battered his victims with a stone loaded sock
and give them many clouts and several survived his assaults.
He didnt mutilate until he later came to believe that he was the Ripper
and started to try to copy the Ripper's MO but couldnt do it. He was described
by several victims.
They were completely different in their make up, methods and crimes.
The only thing they had in common was that they both operated in the same
area and at that time but that was due to the fact that the Ripper was
baiting the nutter Sutcliffe who responded and eventually took the blame
for the lot. For the real Ripper it was a game that he won because he
knew how the police were only interested in a conviction in the end.
Getting back to Molseed.
Now where would you find two nutters who masturbated over young girls
after his assault? The semen was almost sterile as Kiszko was also, and
it appears Sutlcliffe was sterile being unable to father a child. Unlike
Castree who has children.
Sutcliffe was not questioned about Molseed because Kiszko was blamed for
that when he was arrested and anyway the police would be unlikely to accuse
him of it at any time given that they know he is not really the Ripper.
They need that reopened like a hole in the head.
As you say we will wait and see what the Castree trial brings but my feeling
is that they will drop the charges against him.
Then we must ask ourselves where is that wonderful DNA evidence that Max
McLean found on Molseed belonging to Castree?
Methinks Max should be arrested himself for planting and fabricating evidence.
He is nearly five months inside now and no plea entered yet. So much for
British justice and so much for Max's evidence. I think he is afraid to
produce it because he cant cow down Castree like they did to Humble and
others. Their boss Cramphorn has snuffed it and they are alone now.
If Sutcliffe was sterile how do you explain Sonja's miscarriages? Was
she having an affair?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 35
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:32 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="jnl
If Sutcliffe was sterile how do you explain Sonja's miscarriages? Was
she having an affair?[/quote]
You seem to know a lot about her private life but lets get answers to
the real question and that is why was Sutcliffe eliminated 12 times becasue
his blood group didnt match the Ripper's blood group and why were his
confessions accepted by the police when they knew full well that he was
not the Ripper?
You my friend are the person who will choke on a fly and swallow a camel.
Now try to extract the camel before you attempt to get out the fly.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:49 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
[quote="jnl
If Sutcliffe was sterile how do you explain Sonja's miscarriages? Was
she having an affair?
You seem to know a lot about her private life but lets get answers to
the real question and that is why was Sutcliffe eliminated 12 times becasue
his blood group didnt match the Ripper's blood group and why were his
confessions accepted by the police when they knew full well that he was
not the Ripper?
You my friend are the person who will choke on a fly and swallow a camel.
Now try to extract the camel before you attempt to get out the fly.[/quote]
Thank you for answering my question in such great detail. Anybody who
didn't have an answer would just have fobbed me off.
You say Sutcliffe was eliminated 12 times but I only have a record of
9 interviews, all of which took place at his home or place of work and
no blood samples were taken. Could you please give dates, times and places
of any other interviews?
Some unkind people have told me that you are just a jilted homo-sexual
lover with a grudge. How unkind!
Back to top
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 35
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:26 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="jnl
Thank you for answering my question in such great detail. Anybody who
didn't have an answer would just have fobbed me off.
You say Sutcliffe was eliminated 12 times but I only have a record of
9 interviews, all of which took place at his home or place of work and
no blood samples were taken. Could you please give dates, times and places
of any other interviews?
Some unkind people have told me that you are just a jilted homo-sexual
lover with a grudge. How unkind![/quote]
It is clearly on the record that the Ripper was B blood group and police
were actually considering doing a blanket search of doctors records in
1980 to try to uncover the killer but were not allowed to do so.
If you know anything about policing you should know that a blood sample
was taken from all Ripper suspects.
Sutcliffe's workmates stated that they all were blood tested in the initial
interviews and he was returned to due to his suspicious behaviour rather
than due to his blood result.
It was at this time that his assault of Marilyn Moore and her image of
him came to the fore and the Irishman's photofit started to recede into
the background. This was the time also that he had killed Jean Jordan
in Manchester and returned to pull the body out of the bushes and then
returned again to dump her handbag on the grass a week after the body
was found.
The bag contained the famous fiver which led the police to Clarkes transport.
To answer your slur on my character I am and have always been normal sexually
and I have been married now for 15 years but before that I could not marry
because of my fear of giving the Ripper a chance to find my weakness.
He would go for my family and so I had to remain single for all that time.
Back to top
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:31 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
[quote="jnl
Thank you for answering my question in such great detail. Anybody who
didn't have an answer would just have fobbed me off.
You say Sutcliffe was eliminated 12 times but I only have a record of
9 interviews, all of which took place at his home or place of work and
no blood samples were taken. Could you please give dates, times and places
of any other interviews?
Some unkind people have told me that you are just a jilted homo-sexual
lover with a grudge. How unkind!
It is clearly on the record that the Ripper was B blood group and police
were actually considering doing a blanket search of doctors records in
1980 to try to uncover the killer but were not allowed to do so.
If you know anything about policing you should know that a blood sample
was taken from all Ripper suspects.
Sutcliffe's workmates stated that they all were blood tested in the initial
interviews and he was returned to due to his suspicious behaviour rather
than due to his blood result.
It was at this time that his assault of Marilyn Moore and her image of
him came to the fore and the Irishman's photofit started to recede into
the background. This was the time also that he had killed Jean Jordan
in Manchester and returned to pull the body out of the bushes and then
returned again to dump her handbag on the grass a week after the body
was found.
The bag contained the famous fiver which led the police to Clarkes transport.
To answer your slur on my character I am and have always been normal sexually
and I have been married now for 15 years but before that I could not marry
because of my fear of giving the Ripper a chance to find my weakness.
He would go for my family and so I had to remain single for all that time.[/quote]
Don't you ever answer the question that is put to you?
Wasn't Oscar Wilde married?
Back to top
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:54 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jnl wrote:
joey3 wrote:
[quote="jnl
Thank you for answering my question in such great detail. Anybody who
didn't have an answer would just have fobbed me off.
You say Sutcliffe was eliminated 12 times but I only have a record of
9 interviews, all of which took place at his home or place of work and
no blood samples were taken. Could you please give dates, times and places
of any other interviews?
Some unkind people have told me that you are just a jilted homo-sexual
lover with a grudge. How unkind!
It is clearly on the record that the Ripper was B blood group and police
were actually considering doing a blanket search of doctors records in
1980 to try to uncover the killer but were not allowed to do so.
If you know anything about policing you should know that a blood sample
was taken from all Ripper suspects.
Sutcliffe's workmates stated that they all were blood tested in the initial
interviews and he was returned to due to his suspicious behaviour rather
than due to his blood result.
It was at this time that his assault of Marilyn Moore and her image of
him came to the fore and the Irishman's photofit started to recede into
the background. This was the time also that he had killed Jean Jordan
in Manchester and returned to pull the body out of the bushes and then
returned again to dump her handbag on the grass a week after the body
was found.
The bag contained the famous fiver which led the police to Clarkes transport.
To answer your slur on my character I am and have always been normal sexually
and I have been married now for 15 years but before that I could not marry
because of my fear of giving the Ripper a chance to find my weakness.
He would go for my family and so I had to remain single for all that time.
Don't you ever answer the question that is put to you?
Wasn't Oscar Wilde married?[/quote]
You say he returned to dump the handbag, where's your proof. And it wasn't
a week it would have been four days
Back to top
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 35
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:13 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jnl wrote:
[quote="jnl Don't you ever answer the question that is put to you?
Wasn't Oscar Wilde married?
You say he returned to dump the handbag, where's your proof. And it wasn't
a week it would have been four days[/quote]
I fail to see what Oscar Wilde has to do with the Ripper or my personal
life. As I already told you I am normal thank god but regardless what
I was, that has little to do with the Ripper story.
Perhaps you would care to identify yourself seeing as you seem to know
so much about it.
I can tell you that your sex habits wont be held against you if you know
something that is relevant to the Ripper story and you want to make a
serious contribution.
It seems to me you cant answer the big question of why were Sutcliffe's
confessions so readily believed given that he had been eliminated so comprehensively
and what happened to the copycat killer.
Back to top
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 35
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 8:40 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote=" You say he returned to dump the handbag, where's your proof.
And it wasn't a week it would have been four days[/quote]
Sorry I forgot to answer that one.
The proof of that lies in the fact that the police found the handbag and
inside it was a neatly folded fiver put there by loonie copycat killer
Sutcliffe and that brought the Manchester police to Bradford to interview
everyone in Clarkes Transport amongst other businesses in that area where
the brand new numbered fiver was taken from a local bank.
Needless to say it was the customers of that particular branch who were
called on and Clarkes was one of those.
Now when the body was found some days earlier the police did a serious
search of the area and the surrounds.
Surely they couldnt have missed a handbag on the grass near where the
body was located?
The obvious conclusion is that nutty Sutcliffe returned a second time
and dumped the handbag there and put the fiver in it to bring the cops
to his workplace.
The Manchester police said at the time that they were looking for 'a very
strange man.'
Incidentally on his way home after pulling the body of Jean Jordan from
the bushes in the early hours of the previous visit, he returned to Ravenscliffe
Estate in Bradford and battered Carole Wilkinson in the morning on her
way to work. Most likely she had run from him down the lane at the back
of her father's home.
He knew her and knew that area and as K has said in this thread Sutcliffe
was known to Carole's father who had chased him from her home.
But you try telling that to the Bradford police and Detective Danny Bolton
in particular and you will be surprised to learn that they dont wish to
know about these matters. But then again if you are involved you wont
be surprised.
Back to top
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:41 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This really isn't good enough!
Your "proof" isn't proof at all then but the "obvious conclusion"
that you have reached after wilfully distorting the facts.
"Surely they couldn't have missed a handbag on the grass near where
the body was located?"
If you cobsider that a handbag found 189 ft away over a fence and in long
grass as "near" you may have a point but even then that is not
an obvious conclusion based on the facts.
You accuse the police of poor investigation and corruption but your logic
is appallingly shoddy.
"On the way home" he killed Carol Wilkinson at about nine o'clock
in the morning. That was a hell of a long journey or was he driving around
hoping to be caught by the police? Didn't he have a job as a lorry driver
to go to and don't lorry drivers start early?
You disingenuously state that the fiver was in the handbag witthout stating
that it was found in a little side pocket or that he stripped Jean Jordan
in an attempt to find it, flinging her clothes around.
On your website you state that while he was at work "his car sat
on the grass verge of a busy highway" WHAT????
I suggest anybody who believes this guy's crap should go to Keith Brannen's
page where he systematically and logically takes O'Gara's crap apart.
In an e-mail he told me that O'Gara's theory is so full of holes that
he just doesn't have the time to take it all apart.
Back to top
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:54 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should also state that the handbag was found outside the original police
search area and then not by them but by a member of the public
Back to top
Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 279
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:10 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you have a link to Brannens webpage?
Back to top
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 35
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:44 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jnl wrote:
This really isn't good enough!
Your "proof" isn't proof at all then but the "obvious conclusion"
that you have reached after wilfully distorting the facts.
"Surely they couldn't have missed a handbag on the grass near where
the body was located?"
If you cobsider that a handbag found 189 ft away over a fence and in long
grass as "near" you may have a point but even then that is not
an obvious conclusion based on the facts.
You accuse the police of poor investigation and corruption but your logic
is appallingly shoddy.
"On the way home" he killed Carol Wilkinson at about nine o'clock
in the morning. That was a hell of a long journey or was he driving around
hoping to be caught by the police? Didn't he have a job as a lorry driver
to go to and don't lorry drivers start early?
You disingenuously state that the fiver was in the handbag witthout stating
that it was found in a little side pocket or that he stripped Jean Jordan
in an attempt to find it, flinging her clothes around.
On your website you state that while he was at work "his car sat
on the grass verge of a busy highway" WHAT????
I suggest anybody who believes this guy's crap should go to Keith Brannen's
page where he systematically and logically takes O'Gara's crap apart.
In an e-mail he told me that O'Gara's theory is so full of holes that
he just doesn't have the time to take it all apart.
You seem to know a lot about this and perhaps you were involved in some
way when you have so much detail as 189 feet.
Why should anybody believe you when you cant even put a name on yourself?
Yet you say I speak crap and you are so full of (expletive deleted) yourself.
Dont you think that the police would search a very wide area when such
a grisly murdered victim was found on the edge of busy allotments? More
that a radius of just 60 yards?
Sutcliffe planted the fiver in the pocket of the handbag for a specific
reason, to bring the cops to him. Only problem for him was that when they
came to him he was not the correct blood group of the Ripper.
This murder was the first copycat murder of Sutcliffe and the Ripper used
it to the full because he knew there as a nutter trying to emulate him
and he took advantage of that to wind up the police by writing to them
and including that murder in his count.
As for Keith Brannens web site, that was made by Brannen on police payment
in an effort to counter my web site. In it he avoids all the vital points
of evidence and concentrates on trying to undermine my web site.
That was why it was made in the first place and it just trots out the
stated wisdom of the Ripper murders as per the official account.
There is no mention of Sutcliffe's blood group or his teeth pattern while
two murders, the Harrison murder in Preston and the Whittaker one in Halifax
were both bitten on the letf breast by the same set of teeth and that
was not Sutcliffe because he didnt have a large gap in the front of his
top row of teeth and didnt have the B blood group of the killer.
Nevertheless he confessed to the Halifax murder and bent cop Dick Holland
accepted this confession but the Lancashire police wouldnt wear his confessions
to their murder because they were certain he didnt do it. At least there
are some honest cops about.
Now try to read Brannens web site and spot the difference.
Dont believe me but rather believe the evidence.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 279
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:03 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps you can furnish me with a link Mr O'Gara?....or perhaps not eh?
i've read it and quoted some facts from it further up this thread which
of course you and Mrs Lentil Burger shot down in flames.
I'm still waiting for my free copy of your book by the way.
Last edited by Mazdaman on Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in
total
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:06 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So joey3 is your real name is it ?
I was warned that this would happen. You obfuscate the situation by rambling
on and reiterating the same points and you ignore the fact that you have
no proof that Sutcliffe returned a second time. Give me PROOF not "obvious
conclusions" which are only obvious to conspiracy theorists like
yourself and twisted to fit your pet theories.
Again I ask for PROOF:-
Proof that Sutcliffe came back a second time
Proof that his car was parked on the grass verge
Is that too much to ask?
Now, apparently Brannen is in the pay of the police because he has disagreed
with you. Proof again please!
Is everybody corrupt apart from you and your mind-numbingly gullible acolytes
?
Keep taking the medication.
Author Message
mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 552
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:19 pm
Post subject:
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joey3 wrote:
Sutcliffe planted the fiver in the pocket of the handbag for a specific
reason, to bring the cops to him.
Sutcliffe actually told you that?
Back to top
Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 280
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:44 pm
Post subject:
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To be sure be gorrah
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 552
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:12 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
To be sure be gorrah
I was being serious.
He must have, or else it's just supposition.
When did you interview Sutcliffe?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 280
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:52 pm
Post subject:
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Come on Mick I credited you with more intelligence than to take this thread
seriously man.
Take it all with a pinch of the old blarney.....to be sure.
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 552
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:04 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
Come on Mick I credited you with more intelligence than to take this thread
seriously man.
Take it all with a pinch of the old blarney.....to be sure.
He's stating something as fact, so I'm just trying to be sure, to be sure.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 280
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:13 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well lets just wait till Mr Dermot O'Dreary makes his weekly pilgrimage
to this thread to see what he has to say.
I'll have a tenner on something about corrupt Police......to be sure to
be sure oh aye to be sure.
Back to top
Mike Strutter
Joined: 05 Feb 2007
Posts: 590
Location: Struttsville
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:21 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's going on, be jesus ?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:25 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Strutter wrote:
What's going on, be jesus ?
Look lads if you try to skip the silly Irish crap and take a very serious
subject as it should be taken we might get somewhere.
The problem is you guys really are hung up on Peter Sutcliffe being the
Ripper because thats what you feel comfortable to believe.
I know the feeling and its not nice at all to think that you have been
led up the garden path by your police for twenty five years and the real
Ripper is still out there and a free man. I know that is not a nice thought
but thats the reality. He is not a fool nor a loonie like Sutcliffe.
When I first started screaming that the cops fitted up Sutcliffe as the
Ripper nobody would believe me. That was in 1982 and the real Ripper was
living very close to me then so I know the feeling of fear better than
any of you guys.
Then we had the Birmingham 6 and all the other police crimes exposed but
they still havent put them in that context preferring to suggest that
they were miscarriages of justice and that way everyone is off the hook
including the bent cops who beat the confessions out of them.
A few examples of police crime in Yorkshire was Stefan Kiszko and Judith
Ward and Bradford man Anthony Steel, all innocent fall guys deliberately
framed for murders. Needless to say the real killers were laughing and
they knew the way the cops worked and solved their crimes.
Now to repeat, I am the author of the web site yorkshireripper with a
dot and a com and my real name is Noel O'Gara.
In my first few attempts to get on this forum I was barred and I am well
known to the editor of the T and A and so I adopted the name joey3 and
got my speak in to this forum as a reply to Colin Peters who lives in
Bradford and who was defrauded by judge Kerry McGill's firm when he was
a solicitor in Bradford firn Lumb and Kenningham.
For those who dont know McGill was Sutcliffe's solicitor who brokered
the deal for him.
The West Yorkshire police are not all idiots, I'll grant them that and
there are some excellent ones but there are a few bent cops and the big
problem is that nobody in the force can stick his neck out and call them
to account. Such an honest cop would be ostracised and be disciplined
and threatened with loss of pension, promotion etc and nobody in the higher
echelons would support him so they must keep silent.
They are allocated jobs and nobody steps out of line.
If a cop is in charge of an invistigation nobody outside can interfere
with him or his decisions. Dick Holland framed Kiszko for murder knowing
that he was innocent.
Dick Holland was the cop who was responsible for eliminating Sutcliffe
so many times and he was also the cop who offered him a deal of ten years
in the mental in return for his confessions to all the murders.
Thats a small overview of a very complex story.
If you choose to believe that Holland was an honest cop thats your choice.
I am not trying to make money out of this sad story but other innocent
women have been murdered by the real Ripper since Sutcliffe was convicted
and I want to expose this corruption. Is that so hard to believe?
You people in Bradford should have no difficulty believing this because
you should know that the Ripper was not some crazy nut case and the police
story that Sutcliffe is the Ripper is so full of holes that I am amazed
you ever believed it. Like I already said its because you wanted to believe
it and if you believe that you would believe anything.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 280
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:37 am
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The same goes for your stuff too Mr O'Leary. Why did you feel fear from
a man who only killed women?
Its not like he would come after you is it unless you're a closet homo
Transvestite or something....oh thats been said sorry.
This quest of yours seems to have driven you for 25 years or more now,and
thats a hell of a long time to have you life revolving around this stuff.
Personally I dont give a rats ass if the Ripper killed these women or
if Ronnie Corbett did it...I have a life to lead thanks and yeh I may
one day be on the blunt end of a bent copper but hey ho I could get run
over crossing the road this morning so I'm not going to lose any sleep
over something that in the great scheme of things aint really gonna happen.
I can fully understand why you seem besoted with this thing as you knew
Tracey well but as you can see there aint a long line of folk on here
or indeed in Bradford queing up to side with you is there?.....Kay Lentilburger
and some guy ripped off by a bent brief....not really huge sways of Bradford
people is it?
Anyway if you send me a free copy of your book I will sit down and at
least give you some of my time in reading it...I love a good yarn(or is
it yawn?)...the address is Sonia Sutcliffe 6 Garden Lane Heaton Bradford
West Yorkshire.
Why dont you move on dude...you'll be an old man now I presume and time
on this earth may be short....enjoy whats left and leave this shi.te behind......to
be sure
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:44 am
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You've done it again Noel old boy! You've trotted out the same old stuff
again and still not answered my queries regarding the handbag, the car
being parked on the grass verge and killing Carol Wilkinson "on the
way home"
Look Noel, I'll make it easy for you: don't bother to give me proof, just
give me a single shred of evidence that Sutclife put the handbag there
later or that his car "sat on the grass verge of of a busy highway".
Incidentally you tried to ridicule the fact that the police search area
was only 60 yards, whilst not denying that the bag was found where I said
it was.I've seen that lovely accountant's certificate on your web site
so the basic maths should be easy; a search area of 60 yards radius from
the body would give a search area of about 2!/3 acres, thats 2!/3 acres
of hedgerow, tracks, sheds, greenhouses, waste from alloitments, prostitutes
and general detritus. Even then they didn't find the handbag, it was found
by a member of the public !
Really Noel I worry about your sanity!
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 552
Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:28 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
joey3 wrote:
Sutcliffe planted the fiver in the pocket of the handbag for a specific
reason, to bring the cops to him.
Sutcliffe actually told you that?
Still waiting for an answer please Noel.
BTW: If you couldn't get onto the forum with your real name, then why
have you made it quite clear that you are Noel O'gara, isn't there a risk
that the thread will be pulled if you are such a problem to 'some' people?.
Two questions, requiring answers please.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:11 am
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Hope to hear from you soon Noel; when you've answered the questions put
to you by myself and Mickfly I've got a few more regarding the murders
that you claim Tracey coommitted
Bye bye
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:50 am
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So Mr Nutcase O'Gara can any of us go round libeling anyone we don't like
by saying they were the Yorkshire Ripper or is it something only a thick
Oirish beancounter can do?
_________________
Talk to the BNP, with a baseball bat.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 36
Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:08 pm
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jnl wrote:
Even then they didn't find the handbag, it was found by a member of the
public !
Really Noel I worry about your sanity!
Correct, the police didnt find the handbag because it wasnt there. Sutcliffe
had taken the handbag with him and returned to the scene of the crime
for a second time some days later and actually planted the handbag at
the scene.
Just to remind people, he had returned days earlier to pull the body from
a hedge and cut it up and attempt to cut her head off with a hacksaw.
Apparently he was angry because the body wasnt discovered.
On his second return visit he carefully placed the fresh fiver from Clarke's
Transport in a pocket of the bag and it was found the next morning by
a member of the public who had an allotment there.
The cops knew that the fiver had been planted there by her killer because
it had only been issued by the bank after Jean Jordan was murdered.
Thats why the Manchester police said 'we are looking for a very strange
man'.
The reason I know so much about the Ripper murders is because the real
Ripper told me so much about Sutcliffe. Now perhaps you know better than
him.
As for my sanity that is not an issue. You need to look at your own mental
processes and if you believe that the police are such idiots that they
eliminated Sutcliffe as the Ripper 12 times and on the thirteenth time
because he admitted that he was the Ripper then they believe that he is
and you bought that crap, it tells me that you would believe anything.
I am replying to you because at least you didnt descend to Paddy whackery
and the others who do that have lost the argument when they start to call
me silly names. But then the world has many a fool.
Bear in mind that the fuzz knew Sutcliffe was O blood group and the Ripper
was B group. Also the Ripper had a distinct gap in the top front of his
teeth. Sutcliffe had nothing like that.
What they failed to recognise was that he was the nutty copycat killer
trying to emulate the Ripper.
Author Message
Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1088
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:03 pm
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do you really think a clapped out old fart of an Oirish certified accountant
(traditionally thick people took the certified exams because you could
retake them until you passed - hopefully before you retired) has a sword
of truth or is it just the way he w*nks?
_________________
Talk to the BNP, with a baseball bat.
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:34 pm
Post subject:
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Baht At wrote:
do you really think a clapped out old fart of an Oirish certified accountant
(traditionally thick people took the certified exams because you could
retake them until you passed - hopefully before you retired) has a sword
of truth or is it just the way he w*nks?
I see racism is not just the forte of the BNP bah tat.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1088
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:05 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
Baht At wrote:
do you really think a clapped out old fart of an Oirish certified accountant
(traditionally thick people took the certified exams because you could
retake them until you passed - hopefully before you retired) has a sword
of truth or is it just the way he w*nks?
I see racism is not just the forte of the BNP bah tat.
what's racist about that?
He is Oirish .... he makes great play of it. The thick refers to the
certified accountant bit not the fact he's Oirish.
_________________
Talk to the BNP, with a baseball bat.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:02 pm
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Don't muddy the waters lads and give him a chance to wriggle off the hook.
He's starting to look very silly.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 301
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:50 pm
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Starting?????? .....he's been doing that for 20 odd yeasrs to be honest.
Where's Kay Lentilburger these days?.....banged up for killing John Lennon
no doubt
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:57 pm
Post subject:
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Baht At wrote:
mickfly wrote:
Baht At wrote:
do you really think a clapped out old fart of an Oirish certified accountant
(traditionally thick people took the certified exams because you could
retake them until you passed - hopefully before you retired) has a sword
of truth or is it just the way he w*nks?
I see racism is not just the forte of the BNP bah tat.
what's racist about that?
He is Oirish .... he makes great play of it. The thick refers to the
certified accountant bit not the fact he's Oirish.
You are being derogatory, not funny, so that's where the racism is.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:07 am
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While we are waiting for Noel's reply, a little light relief. These are
direct quotes from his website, the first re the murder of Patricia Atkinson
and the second a description of Tracey.
"With the claw hammer in his inside pocket, he probably had a drink
in the Carlisle pub where, clean and well dressed and wearing his half
sovereign gold ring he would have been able to stalk his drunken prostitute
victim when she left the pub alone." and "He was spotlessly
clean and immaculately dressed, always finished with a silk hankie and
a rosebud, He wore a large wedding band and he frequently wore a gold
half sovereign ring which was set on a very ostentatious ring mount. His
dress was finished with an antique silver topped cane"
This must have all been rounded off with a pair of size 7 Dunlop Warwick
wellington boots which left a print at the scene of the murder!!
This is an object lesson to all serial killers on how to fit in when in
the Manningham area on a saturday night!!
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 39
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:55 pm
Post subject:
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jnl wrote:
Don't muddy the waters lads and give him a chance to wriggle off the hook.
He's starting to look very silly.
there is none so silly as the Bradford detectives who eliminated suspect
Sutcliffe 12 times because his blood group didnt match the Ripper's and
his teeth pattern didnt match the Ripper's teeth.
They kept coming back to him because he was cruising up and down Lumb
Land so often where they were parked up taking down car numbers. Of course
they all knew him then but they wanted to get their hands on the Ripper,
not a nutty copycat killer.
Then the desperate copycat killer Sutcliffe who believed he was the Ripper
had to travel to Sheffield to get arrested and said he was glad its all
over as soon as he coughed.
Does that sound like a man who would rip a woman's stomach open with the
claws of a hammer after battering her dead and spent half an hour setting
up her body for the cops to get sick on sight.
Maybe you guys were the silly ones who believed bent cop Dick Holland
that Sutcliffe was the Ripper. How could you be so gullible?
Now you are trying to wriggle out of the main facts of evidence and concentrate
on where Jean Jordan's bag was found when you know perfectly well that
the cops would have found it, had it been where it was found days earlier
when they found the body and combed the whole area for several hundred
yards in all directions.
You cant be serious when you say they only searched an area of a few acres
after such a grisly find.
But getting back to the detectives we all know that they are not so silly
and they are the experts who proved that Sutcliffe was NOT the Ripper,
but that was before he got to Sheffield and started confessing that he
was the Ripper. At that stage they couldnt hold it back because the Sheffield
cops didnt know what the Bradford guys knew.
Only the Ripper knew how the cops frame up innocent people for murders
and of course copycat killers and thats why he started writing to George
Oldfield and George believed him because he had the forensic evidence
on the letters B blood.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 301
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 9:58 pm
Post subject:
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And your point is ?
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mickfly
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 572
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:27 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
joey3 wrote:
Sutcliffe planted the fiver in the pocket of the handbag for a specific
reason, to bring the cops to him.
Sutcliffe actually told you that?
Did he?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 39
Posted: Thu May 03, 2007 11:40 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
mickfly wrote:
joey3 wrote:
Sutcliffe planted the fiver in the pocket of the handbag for a specific
reason, to bring the cops to him.
Sutcliffe actually told you that?
Did he?
Sutcliffe never told me anything because he wasnt allowed to read my book
and they said it was for his mental health that he wasnt given access
to it. A friend of mine from Hull living in Thailand wrote to Broadmoor
for me.
The bag was slung on the grass by the man who stole it from the victim
when he returned for the second time to the scene of the crime.
The fiver brought the Manchester cops to his door and that was what he
wanted.
However the Bradford cops knew the Ripper was B blood and thats why Sutcliffe
was eliminated as the Ripper so much and so often.
Then as the real Ripper escalated the murders Sutcliffe grew more and
more desperate because he believed he was the Ripper and he came more
and more to the attention of the police but they always knew he was not
the Ripper and nobody wanted to apprehend the copycat killer.
They were all focussed on catching the Ripper.
In the end when they couldnt get the real Ripper because he was in Ireland
they fitted up the nutty Sutcliffe with his confessions and a guarantee
of no trial and the mental home where he remains today.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 301
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:47 am
Post subject:
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A guarantee of no trial???....I thought he had one
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1088
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 5:59 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
mickfly wrote:
You are being derogatory, not funny, so that's where the racism is.
well strange as it may seem when I see an idiot spreading nonsense I tend
to say look at that idiot rather than be polite to him.
_________________
Talk to the BNP, with a baseball bat.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 301
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:01 am
Post subject:
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Bravo Boretat...at least you show no favours.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 14
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:25 am
Post subject:
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Look O'Gra what does it take to get a straight answer out of you???
I asked what evidence you had that Sutcliffe returned with the handbag
and that his car was parked on the grass verge.
You lied by saying that the fiver was issued after Jean Jordan's death
when you know full well it was issued four days before. What about the
car?? We have already dealt with the fact that the handbag was found yards
away from the body.
what exactly don't you understand about "give us the evidence"?
Oh, I see it's the word EVIDENCE.
Sort this out and we can move on to the glaring holes in your theory about
Patricia Atkinson et al.
For God's sake get a grip!!!
Author Message
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 16
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:17 am
Post subject:
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[/quote]Sutcliffe never told me anything because he wasnt allowed to read
my book and they said it was for his mental health that he wasnt given
access to it.
Isn't this good advice for anybody !!!
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 318
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:12 pm
Post subject:
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You'll not be buying his book then jnl?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 43
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 1:57 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jnl wrote:
Look O'Gra what does it take to get a straight answer out of you???
I asked what evidence you had that Sutcliffe returned with the handbag
and that his car was parked on the grass verge.
You lied by saying that the fiver was issued after Jean Jordan's death
when you know full well it was issued four days before. What about the
car?? We have already dealt with the fact that the handbag was found yards
away from the body.
what exactly don't you understand about "give us the evidence"?
Oh, I see it's the word EVIDENCE.
Sort this out and we can move on to the glaring holes in your theory about
Patricia Atkinson et al.
For God's sake get a grip!!!
You are just a nonentity hiding behind three letters and your intelligence
has glaring holes in its grip on logic.
Identify yourself first and then you may have some credibility.
Otherwise your points are just the speck of dust in the other persons
eye while your eyes are blinded by the beam and thats why you cant reason
properly.
now get a grip man because if I gave you a murder weapon with blood dripping
from it you wouldnt see it throught those eyes of yours because you dont
want to see it.
Then again maybe you read some of the books but remember that the police
only issued information to the public that they wanted to issue for operational
reasons. Police frequently tell lies to mislead the perpetrator into thinking
they know something about him. An example of this is their lie that they
knew the tyre tracks of his car and they got this from a tarmaced car
park. Ever try to observe your car tracks on tar? Its a joke.
Thats why they kept the information about the fiver secret until nearly
two weeks after they were given the handbag.
They were cock sure they would find the nutty man who planted it with
the fresh fiver and it did lead them to Peter Sutcliffe and then they
returned to him days later a second time because he was acting so suspiciously.
Then Sutcliffe attacked Leeds prostitute Marilyn Moore after a row with
her about a fiver and she gave the police a detailed description of both
him and his car but they couldnt put it together because the Manchester
cops were working on their murder and the Leeds guys were not giving them
the Ripper details.
They were unwilling to even give their own cops the full evidence that
they had available and basically the Real Ripper played on this weakness
which was his real forte.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:02 pm
Post subject:
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I read the book some time ago and it seemed plausable, but when the "ripper
tapes" geordie bum was arrested, I assumed that this rendered much
of the case for two rippers as being unlikely.
Or was the geordie tape narrator an acomplice of the real ripper or Sutcliffe?
Is the author saying the geordie was framed for the tapes?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 318
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 9:46 pm
Post subject:
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Oh dont encourage O'Gara for fox sake
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:11 pm
Post subject:
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Actually I just spent the last hour reading his web site and I have to
say that any fool can see that John Humbles handwriting from prison is
a million miles away from the style of the rippers hand writing.
Where is the real ripper now Mr O'Gara? Is he still in Ireland?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 43
Posted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:36 pm
Post subject:
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P22 wrote:
Actually I just spent the last hour reading his web site and I have to
say that any fool can see that John Humbles handwriting from prison is
a million miles away from the style of the rippers hand writing.
Where is the real ripper now Mr O'Gara? Is he still in Ireland?
he is not here and last I heard he was in Manchester.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:35 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
P22 wrote:
Actually I just spent the last hour reading his web site and I have to
say that any fool can see that John Humbles handwriting from prison is
a million miles away from the style of the rippers hand writing.
Where is the real ripper now Mr O'Gara? Is he still in Ireland?
he is not here and last I heard he was in Manchester.
How did he react to all this publicity? Did he come after you?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 43
Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 9:58 pm
Post subject:
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[quote="P22
How did he react to all this publicity? Did he come after you?[/quote]
When I had exhausted my trust in the British police to reopen the case
and when I could see that the Irish police took the handy view that the
murders were committed in the UK and therefore it was not their business
and anyway they had been assured by the Uk police that Sutcliffe was the
Ripper and they told me that.
They wouldnt believe me because of that and didnt want to delve into my
evidence. I couldnt tell anyone because it was so incredible and unbelievable.
Nobody would believe me except a few trusted people who knew me well.
This was before the Birmingham 6 and no miscarriages of justice were acknowledged
then.
I was left with the burden of knowledge and had to face up to the reality
that it was him or me. He knew that too.
So I got guns and I had friends who read my stuff and believed me and
we were getting ready to blast him but he left Ireland before we could
get him. He went for the safer streets of the Uk and the protection of
the UK police who would assert his innocence of the Ripper murders to
protect themselves.
he never returned here and his wife died some years later.
He was supposed to be in London for some time but who knows?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 318
Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:31 pm
Post subject:
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And to be honest Noel...who cares. No seriously...look at this thread..you're
not exactly pulling an audidence here are you?
Its old stuff mate and no one seems to give a toss but thee
Give it up and do the garden in your old age or import some Cannabis from
Amsterdam......let it go because no one really cares...cant you see that
man?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 43
Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 10:47 am
Post subject:
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Mazdaman wrote:
And to be honest Noel...who cares. No seriously...look at this thread..you're
not exactly pulling an audidence here are you?
Its old stuff mate and no one seems to give a toss but thee
Give it up and do the garden in your old age or import some Cannabis from
Amsterdam......let it go because no one really cares...cant you see that
man?
Thats exactly what I encountered. Apathy and especially within police
circles. I just couldnt believe that they could all be so uncaring while
pretending to care at every oppertunity they got to go on the airwaves.
Anyway I was stuck with the real Ripper and he was very real to me because
when I exposed him publicly I then knew that the gloves were off. It was
me or him and he had to get out in the end.
Now you guys in Bradford have a local loonie in Broadmoor who everyone
believes is the Ripper and the most dangerous man in Britain.
Meanwhile the real Ripper could be living down your street right now.
You dont give a toss you say but if your wife or daughter was clobbered
by him tonight you might change your tune.
I have been through the mill of police and public indifference and have
a very busy life now but it did take up a lot of my time not to mention
anything else but I have my life and I can still tell my story.
How about the many whose lives have been violently taken from them?
I have done all I can to expose an evil man who murdered several women
in Bradford and he cant come near me now because he knows he would be
blasted on sight. Thats a pretty comfortable way to be while you are still
paying the police salaries to protect your womenfolk and living in a fairy
tale land of make belief that everything is rosy in the garden while it
is crumbling all around you.
Look at your neighbours all living in fear of burglars and sex assaults
and afraid to walk the streets at night.
Thats the legacy of refusing to fight corruption and evil.
I'm all right mate. Its you I am worried about.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 318
Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:38 am
Post subject:
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Noel......if you were championing the cause of Police and Political indifference
towards the sweeping blight of Islam in this coutry I think you may have
more of an audience especially around these parts.
Thats a subject that is much more relivent than some quater of a century
old mumbo jumbo claptrap,
I'm far more worried about my wife or Son getting robbed and beaten by
the local Honda Boys than Billy boy to be honest.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1150
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:02 pm
Post subject:
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Mazdaman wrote:
Noel......if you were championing the cause of Police and Political indifference
towards the sweeping blight of Islam in this coutry
I don't see any blight of islam .... I do however see a blight of thick
white chavs.
_________________
I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then
go down and meet them with baseball bats.
Woody Allen
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 43
Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:48 pm
Post subject:
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Mazdaman wrote:
Noel......if you were championing the cause of Police and Political indifference
towards the sweeping blight of Islam in this coutry I think you may have
more of an audience especially around these parts.
Thats a subject that is much more relivent than some quater of a century
old mumbo jumbo claptrap,
I'm far more worried about my wife or Son getting robbed and beaten by
the local Honda Boys than Billy boy to be honest.
How could you champion any cause in Britain when the system is so blind
that it allows the greatest mass killer ever known in the UK to go free
and even now twenty five years on he is still there and you and the general
public couldnt care less?
You have no chance of fighting any cause because you are so blind and
weak and those other evils you complain of can see how weak you are and
take full advantage of it.
You and your children after you will reap the inevitable reward in time
because you fail to face the facts and the truth today. You have chosen
to live in the world of make belief. I do live in the real world and its
coming at you fast because the leaders you believe in are phoney and spineless
bureaucrats.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:05 pm
Post subject:
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^good post!
Author Message
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:57 am
Post subject:
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P22
Take Mazdaman's advice and don't encourage him. If you read this thread
you will see that I have asked him a couple of questions which only required
a straight answer and O'Gara's tactic is to rattle on about something
else hoping it will go away or to tell the odd blatant lie such as"The
cops knew that the fiver had been planted there by her killer because
it had only been issued by the bank after Jean Jordan was murdered".
Just a blatant lie!!
Regarding the hoaxer-imagine you are a sad individual whose only achievement
in life is to weave a conspiracy theory around the Yorkshire Ripper and
suddenly, against all the odds the hoaxer John Humble is arrested after
many years and everything you have said has been proven to be total rubbish
what do you do?? If you have a diseased mind the answer is easy, the cops
framed him!!! To help your story on its way this evil bastard becomes
"a vulnerable alcoholic"
On his web site Tracey is described as "an able mimic", well
to have fooled two professors of linguistics and the experts at Leeds
university I don't think the term "able mimic" does him justice
do you?? Incidentally they got the Castletown area of Sunderland spot
on.
Tell me P22 why do you think O'Gara is suddenly starting to rubbish the
police tyre evidence, when the combination of track width and tyre mix
was nearly as good as a fingerprint? Ask yourself.
Incidentally it is interesting that Humble and Sutcliffe are corresponding
and Sutcliffe has apparently invited Humble to visit him on Humble's release
from jail-what do you make of that?
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 4:58 am
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[/quote]An example of this is their lie that they knew the tyre tracks
of his car and they got this from a tarmaced car park.
PROOF O'Gara!!! Yawn
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 332
Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:45 am
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jnl....you could'nt make this s.hite up could you?.......or could you?
Noel O'Gara...a suitable case for treatment.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 46
Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:22 pm
Post subject:
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jnl wrote:
P22
Take Mazdaman's advice and don't encourage him. If you read this thread
you will see that I have asked him a couple of questions which only required
a straight answer and O'Gara's tactic is to rattle on about something
else hoping it will go away or to tell the odd blatant lie such as"The
cops knew that the fiver had been planted there by her killer because
it had only been issued by the bank after Jean Jordan was murdered".
Just a blatant lie!!
Regarding the hoaxer-imagine you are a sad individual whose only achievement
in life is to weave a conspiracy theory around the Yorkshire Ripper and
suddenly, against all the odds the hoaxer John Humble is arrested after
many years and everything you have said has been proven to be total rubbish
what do you do?? If you have a diseased mind the answer is easy, the cops
framed him!!! To help your story on its way this evil bastard becomes
"a vulnerable alcoholic"
On his web site Tracey is described as "an able mimic", well
to have fooled two professors of linguistics and the experts at Leeds
university I don't think the term "able mimic" does him justice
do you?? Incidentally they got the Castletown area of Sunderland spot
on.
Tell me P22 why do you think O'Gara is suddenly starting to rubbish the
police tyre evidence, when the combination of track width and tyre mix
was nearly as good as a fingerprint? Ask yourself.
Incidentally it is interesting that Humble and Sutcliffe are corresponding
and Sutcliffe has apparently invited Humble to visit him on Humble's release
from jail-what do you make of that?
Ok wise guy you seem to know so much you are beginning to sound like a
cop who needs to believe that you got the right man.
To face the reality that you got the nutter with his confessions is a
tough one to swallow.
But look at the record of stitch ups Kiszko, Anthony Steel, the Birmingham
6, the Guildford 4, the Maguire 7 to name a few.
Sutcliffe is the stitch up you cant stomach because you would be in big
trouble if the public realised the truth and how you let the Ripper get
away and dont take my word for it that he killed again, just look at the
newspaper articles in my web site.
I guess thats why you are trying to square the circle with your peripheral
evidence with the fiver and cant face the music on why the cops eliminated
their man so many times.
Ever think of the bite on the breasts of two victims of the Ripper?
One that Sutcliffe confessed to and one that is still unsolved.
One thing the Bradford cops proved for sure was that Peter Sutcliffe
was not the Ripper but when he started to cough and you guys realised
that you had screwed up big time you bought the lie and bullshitted the
public ever since.
Tell the others how Sutcliffe was eliminated because he was O blood group
and how come the police were on record that the Ripper was B blood.
Why dont you say who you are and stand up like a man and while you are
doing that will you tell your readers about the copycat killer who was
involved in the Ripper murders, ie two killers, the Ripper who was the
main target and the copycat killer who was Peter Sutcliffe the nutter
who believed that he was the Ripper but the cops knew better.
O'Gara has no tactics only to tell the facts but you are denying them.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1217
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:39 am
Post subject:
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joey3 wrote:
[Why dont you say who you are and stand up like a man and while you are
doing that will you tell your readers about the copycat killer who was
involved in the Ripper murders, ie two killers, the Ripper who was the
main target and the copycat killer who was Peter Sutcliffe the nutter
who believed that he was the Ripper but the cops knew better.
O'Gara has no tactics only to tell the facts but you are denying them.
why don't you just shut up and stop promoting your bag of lies.
_________________
I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then
go down and meet them with baseball bats.
Woody Allen
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wizard
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 307
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:00 am
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Look out for freak weather around the area, I find myself in agreement
with Baht At!!!!! But seriously I think this is now becoming boring, as
both sides have had ample opportunity to put their case forward, and clearly
neither side are willing to change their opinions. So let it go now and
move on>
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1217
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:50 am
Post subject:
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wizard wrote:
Look out for freak weather around the area, I find myself in agreement
with Baht At!!!!! But seriously I think this is now becoming boring, as
both sides have had ample opportunity to put their case forward, and clearly
neither side are willing to change their opinions. So let it go now and
move on>
Even worse I'm agreeing with wizard.
Portents of doom indeed.
_________________
I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then
go down and meet them with baseball bats.
Woody Allen
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:14 am
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Same old crap O'Gara, and stillno answers to the questions.
You came on to this site as "joey33" but it soon became apparent
who you were as you are the only idiot with aconspiracy theory.Wrong again
old son, I'm not a cop or anything to do with the establishment, just
a concerned citizen with a superior intellect to yours.
Once I give you my name it would enable you to come out with the old conspiracy
crap that I was being paid by the police/legal system/freemasons/lee harvey
oswald/the ghost of princess diana/the duke of Edinburgh.................................etc
etc to discredit you.
Iam an accountant living in North Yorks that's all you need to know. Now
get a grip and answer the questions...............if you can!!!!!!!!!!
Bye bye Noel old chum
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 46
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:22 pm
Post subject:
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jnl wrote:
Same old crap O'Gara, and stillno answers to the questions.
You came on to this site as "joey33" but it soon became apparent
who you were as you are the only idiot with aconspiracy theory.Wrong again
old son, I'm not a cop or anything to do with the establishment, just
a concerned citizen with a superior intellect to yours.
Once I give you my name it would enable you to come out with the old conspiracy
crap that I was being paid by the police/legal system/freemasons/lee harvey
oswald/the ghost of princess diana/the duke of Edinburgh.................................etc
etc to discredit you.
Iam an accountant living in North Yorks that's all you need to know. Now
get a grip and answer the questions...............if you can!!!!!!!!!!
Bye bye Noel old chum
an accountant has a grip on logic but your grip on it is flakey my friend.
You are a coward and unable to put your name to your rant so therefore
your credibility is zero.
What would give you an insight into murder anyway and in particular murder
investigations and you speak as if you are some kind of expert.
You are just a sad and tired old lag who refuses to face the facts.
Read the evidence on my web site and dont just take my word for it. See
the newspaper headlines about the copycat killer, the B blood group, the
bite marks, the photofit of the Irishman, and the Deal for Sutcliffe's
confessions etc etc.
Its all on the record and that is what I as an accountant am trained to
use as a factual basis for my allegations.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:56 pm
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Don't ever say this thread is boring! If O'Gara is making this stuff up
then it's one hell of a good yarn!
The thing is, he's making some really good points, like the simple fact
that the guy arrested for the ripper tapes has completely diiferent hand
writing to the tipper letters. Explain that?
Yeah it's a conspiracy theory, but I'm open minded, and I know for a
fact that the Police will lie to a conviction and the bigger the case,
the bigger the lie!
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 332
Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:15 pm
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It looks like the fool O'Gara has got himself a convert. ....only another
66 million to go eh Noel?
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:37 am
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This is a bit like a twenty-first century internet version of the old
Victorian pastime of going to a lunatic asylum. goading the inmates and
making fun of them.
There's poor Billy-no-mates O'Gara sitting in the corner in his strait
jacket repeating the mantra "Sutcliffe is group O: Sutcliffe is group
O" hoping that by repeating it enough times it'll become true.
This chum of his won't last as long as Kay Lentilburger and Colin Peters
when he starts to ask O'Gara uncomfortable questions such as
How did Tracey manage to murder so many women when he couldn't drive?
It seems to be a very Irish concept-a pedestrian kerb crawler; also one
who managed to leave tyre tracks that matched Sutcliffe's car perfectly!!!
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1217
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 9:12 am
Post subject:
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joey3 wrote:
an accountant has a grip on logic
go on then tell me how many times it took you to pass your exams ....
did you know you were thick so started as a certified or did you get time-barred
from the chartered exams?
_________________
I think you should defend to the death their right to march, and then
go down and meet them with baseball bats.
Woody Allen
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 15
Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 8:36 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LOL so the real ripper couldn't drive? Or didn't he have a driving licence?
I guess driving without a licence is illegal and he would never stoop
to breaking the laws of the land in pursuit of murder?
I lol when twockers get a driving ban! Like that will stop them reoffending!
I'm open minded.
Tell me more for and against this theory!
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Colin Peters
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 20
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:49 am
Post subject:
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[quote="jnl"]
There's poor Billy-no-mates O'Gara sitting in the corner in his strait
jacket repeating the mantra "Sutcliffe is group O: Sutcliffe is group
O" hoping that by repeating it enough times it'll become true.
This chum of his won't last as long as Kay Lentilburger and Colin Peters
Okay then. You seem to know it all. What is Sutcliffes blood group???
To the best of my knowledge and belief, the well documented fact that
two different sets of blood groups, 'O', and 'B' secreter were found on
different victims cannot mean anything other than there were not one,
but two killers on the loose at that time.
Because the 2 sets of DNA were never found on the same victim, this must
go some way in showing that there were 2 killers working independently
of each other. The real Ripper and the copycat.
Why do you clowns take the mickey out of O'Gara for stating the truth?
A late friend of mine, Solicitor to the Supreme Court, Michael Joseph,
used to say that, 'In the controlled media, every now and then, a little
chink of light is allowed to shine through.
Check out Noel O'Gara's website and you will see that all the pertinent
facts of his claims have been gathered from the published media.
Was it about two years ago when Sutcliffe himself, through the News of
the World, supported O'Gara when he claimed that he was not responsible
for all of the killings?
Author Message
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 48
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:16 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Colin Peters"]jnl wrote:
There's poor Billy-no-mates O'Gara sitting in the corner in his strait
jacket repeating the mantra "Sutcliffe is group O: Sutcliffe is group
O" hoping that by repeating it enough times it'll become true.
This chum of his won't last as long as Kay Lentilburger and Colin Peters
Okay then. You seem to know it all. What is Sutcliffes blood group???
To the best of my knowledge and belief, the well documented fact that
two different sets of blood groups, 'O', and 'B' secreter were found on
different victims cannot mean anything other than there were not one,
but two killers on the loose at that time.
Because the 2 sets of DNA were never found on the same victim, this must
go some way in showing that there were 2 killers working independently
of each other. The real Ripper and the copycat.
Why do you clowns take the mickey out of O'Gara for stating the truth?
A late friend of mine, Solicitor to the Supreme Court, Michael Joseph,
used to say that, 'In the controlled media, every now and then, a little
chink of light is allowed to shine through.
Check out Noel O'Gara's website and you will see that all the pertinent
facts of his claims have been gathered from the published media.
Was it about two years ago when Sutcliffe himself, through the News of
the World, supported O'Gara when he claimed that he was not responsible
for all of the killings?
Colin, these guys are the type who believed that the earth was flat until
they could no longer sustain the fallacy.
They would call Christopher Columbus a conspiracy theorist had he called
to them alone and told them what he had done.
The age of the dinasaurs is not over yet.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:49 am
Post subject:
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Ah! welcome back Colin!
If you are prepared to deal with me in a reasonable and logical way not
like O' gara I will deal with you in the same way.
We are not taking the mickey out of O'Gara for stating the truth but because
when asked a perfectly straightforward question he blusters and doesn't
answer.
Sutcliffe's blood group is B+, if you can produce any evidence to the
contrary I am prepared to look at it; similarly if you can produce any
evidence that two different blood groups were found on the generally accepted
victims of the Yorkshire Ripper then I am prepared to look at that also.
You seem to be a bit confused over blood groupings and DNA, the ability
to use DNA as a forensic tool was not available at that time.
You say that all his claims have been gathered from the published media,
what about his statement that Sutcliffe went back to the murder scene
of Jean Jordan and planted both the handbag and the fiver? He stated that
the handbag was found next to the body when in fact it was found many
yards away, where is it documented that he parked his car on the grass
verge of a busy highway?
What is the first thing the police do at a murder scene, cordon it off
of course, are you seriously suggesting that Sutcliffe went through a
police cordon with officers left on guard to plant the handbag?No, by
his own admission it was thrown yards away over a fence and into long
grass.
O'Gara doesn't like the tyre track evidence for a very good reason, it
links three of the murders nearly as well as a fingerprint, the forensic
scientists could even tell when the murderer had changed tyres. The problem
O'Gara has is that he attributes two of the murders to Tracey and one
to Sutcliffe, is he seriously suggesting that by coincidence Sutcliffe
had parked near Tracey's murder sites?
If you are prepared to address these points rationally then fair enough
but for God's sake don't start ranting like O'Gara.
By the way the office of "solicitor to the supreme court" doesn'exist.
Quote:
LOL so the real ripper couldn't drive? Or didn't he have a driving licence?
O'Gara states that he taught Tracey to drive, the implication of that
is that Tracey couldn't drive not that he could drive but didn't have
a licence. Even allowing for O'Gara's admiittedly sloppy use of language
that is pushing things a bit far.
[/b]
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:29 am
Post subject:
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[/quote]Colin, these guys are the type who believed that the earth was
flat until they could no longer sustain the fallacy.
They would call Christopher Columbus a conspiracy theorist had he called
to them alone and told them what he had done.
At the time of Columbus' voyage it was generally known that the world
was spherical and not flat, that is why Columbus sailed west to find an
alternative route to the orient.
I see your research is up to its usual standard O'Gara!!!
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 332
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:37 am
Post subject:
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I bet he still believes in men in little green suits and thinks Jack Charlton
is a God JNL
All we need now is for the venerable Kay Lentilburger to crawl back out
of the woodwork spouting off and we have the unholy trinity together once
again.
What I cant get my head around is there must have been hundreds of coppers,solicitors,and
assorted legal eagles involved in this case then and over the years since......and
not one of them has chucked away his pension and stuck his head over the
parapet.
There must be at least one of them that cannot sleep at night due to the
terrible knowledge he holds.
Eeeeecckkkk call the doctor I'm starting to sound like Dermot O'Dreary
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 12:09 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mazdaman wrote:
I bet he still believes in men in little green suits and thinks Jack Charlton
is a God JNL
All we need now is for the venerable Kay Lentilburger to crawl back out
of the woodwork spouting off and we have the unholy trinity together once
again.
What I cant get my head around is there must have been hundreds of coppers,solicitors,and
assorted legal eagles involved in this case then and over the years since......and
not one of them has chucked away his pension and stuck his head over the
parapet.
There must be at least one of them that cannot sleep at night due to the
terrible knowledge he holds.
Eeeeecckkkk call the doctor I'm starting to sound like Dermot O'Dreary
Exactly! At this late stage you'd think somebody would say "Bugger
the pension, I can make some real money by blowing the whistle" but
no, not a sound from any quarter.
The medical staff at Broadmoor must have had regular access to Sutcliffe's
medical records over a number of years, but again nothing!
It'll be interesting to see What Colin Peters comes back with but I do
recall he had a liittle falling out with our Noel on this thread after
O'Gara accused him of "whingeing", they must have made up and
become chums again.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 332
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 5:00 pm
Post subject:
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The Homosexual angle again eh??
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 48
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:35 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="
Exactly! At this late stage you'd think somebody would say "Bugger
the pension, I can make some real money by blowing the whistle" but
no, not a sound from any quarter.
The medical staff at Broadmoor must have had regular access to Sutcliffe's
medical records over a number of years, but again nothing!
It'll be interesting to see What Colin Peters comes back with but I do
recall he had a liittle falling out with our Noel on this thread after
O'Gara accused him of "whingeing", they must have made up and
become chums again.[/quote]
I think you bums actually illustrate quite clearly why my allegations
have not been aired publicly.
As someone in the thread said the greater the lie the greater the cover
up and need to protect the lie. Can you seriously imagine a policeman
coming forward and saying that they were all wrong?
He would be met by a barrage of colleagues with the IQ's of you guys and
shouted down as a liar and a delusional deviant.
You guys should consider carefully your Ripper Peter Sutcliffe's own statement
that he is not the Ripper and was reported just two years ago by the News
of the World and the Sunday Mirror. The reports are on my website.
He told his father shortly after he was arrested that he didnt do them
all and he told his brothers pretty much the same and said himself that
there was a copycat killer out there.
Now how do you get your brains around that one or was Sutclffe lying in
those statements and telling the truth when he made his written confessions
to all the murders to bent cop Dick Holland who died last month.
Sutcliffe is reported to have written a book telling all but guess what?
The authorities have put a stop to that to maintain the great lie.
They need to do that so as not to shatter the confidence of the gullible
like you fellows and keep you happy believing in the fictional world of
make belief. Its to maintain your sanity and well being.
Sorry also lads but there were many many mariners hundreds of years before
Columbus who knew that the world was round. Problem was that nobody would
believe them until the official news came from a king.
Anybody who studies the stars by night and navigates the seas would know
that. The Vikings were in the US of A long before Columbus and even some
nasty Irish sailors one thousand years ago even before the Normans came
to our shores from Wales.
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andycapp
Joined: 18 Dec 2006
Posts: 352
Posted: Fri May 11, 2007 11:50 pm
Post subject:
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Who really gives a £uck anymore. The majority of the girls
were slappers who knew the risks when 'the ripper' was about. They Were
no great loss to society then and they aren't now! Full stop!
Would never happen again and nowt will ever be changed so lets forget
it! OK!
_________________
Is this the real life or is this fantasy
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 8:17 am
Post subject:
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The usual O'Gara rantings with the misinformation in the middle
Now how do you get your brains around that one or was Sutclffe lying in
those statements and telling the truth when he made his written confessions
to all the murders to bent cop Dick Holland who died last month.
quote]
It is a matter of record that Sutcliffe made his written confessions
to detectives Smith, Boyle and O'Boyle. No Dick Holland in sight.
How many times must I tell you O'Gara RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH and
less sloppy use of the English language
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 11:46 am
Post subject:
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[Colin, these guys are the type who believed that the earth was flat until
they could no longer sustain the fallacy.
They would call Christopher Columbus a conspiracy theorist had he called
to them alone and told them what he had done.
quote]
For f***k's sake O'Gara, surely nobody can be this thick; this thread
is becoming more like "care in the community"
The point YOU were making was that Christopher Columbus discovered the
world was round and that if he had come back and told me, Mazdaman et
al we would have ridiculed him as a conspiracy theorist.
The point I was making was that Christopher Columbus did not discover
the world was round and that this point shows how shoddy your research
and grasp of the facts is.
I hope a little glimmer of realisation is starting to glimmer in that
befuddled mind of yours.
If anybody else can put any other connotation on what O'Gara wrote above
I would really like to know.
I suggest you stop drinking alcohol while you are still taking medication
Noel old lad.[/quote]
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 48
Posted: Sat May 12, 2007 1:25 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jnl wrote:
[Colin, these guys are the type who believed that the earth was flat until
they could no longer sustain the fallacy.
They would call Christopher Columbus a conspiracy theorist had he called
to them alone and told them what he had done.
quote]
For f***k's sake O'Gara, surely nobody can be this thick; this thread
is becoming more like "care in the community"
The point YOU were making was that Christopher Columbus discovered the
world was round and that if he had come back and told me, Mazdaman et
al we would have ridiculed him as a conspiracy theorist.
The point I was making was that Christopher Columbus did not discover
the world was round and that this point shows how shoddy your research
and grasp of the facts is.
I hope a little glimmer of realisation is starting to glimmer in that
befuddled mind of yours.
If anybody else can put any other connotation on what O'Gara wrote above
I would really like to know.
I suggest you stop drinking alcohol while you are still taking medication
Noel old lad.
[/quote]
Thank you jnl for showing readers the kind of stupidity I have to encounter
when trying to tell people that a killer is still at large and your esteemed
police force have knowingly framed a lunatic copycat killer as the Ripper
therby leaving the real killer free and still insisting that they got
the right man.
I will repeat for the umpteenth time to your numbskull that there were
two killers, the Ripper who was sending the letters and tape to the police
and a copycat killer.
Sutcliffe turned out to be that copycat killer as the evidence shows if
you look at it but you prefer to believe the confessions of this lunatic
who was offered no trial and ten years in a mental home for those confessions.
Why offer him all this if he really was the Ripper?
Sutcliffe had already been eliminated 12 times because his blood group
was not matching the Ripper's B blood.
Also because his teeth pattern didnt match the Ripper's who had bitten
two victims on the left breast. Clearly both victims were killed by the
same killer otherwise the murders would not be linked by our great detectives.
After his arrest Sutcliffe confessed to one of those and they say he denied
the other, that is the Preston murder.
Now JNL, my logical friend, square that circle with your brand of logic
for your admirers and show them how dozey you really are.
Or do I detect a smell of a bent policeman here from you? You would have
a lot to lose if you were one of thsoe bent cops who framed Sutcliffe
and to be honest I detect a little more than just a readers interest in
this debate.
Author Message
jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 29
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:36 am
Post subject:
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Good morning O'Gara, I wasn't going to look at this site today as I am
very busy but I couldn't resist a peek.
This is perfectly true O'Gara, I read your last two contributions and
I got a fit of the giggles, seriously old pal.
The reasons I was so amused are these:-
You actually believed that you acquited yourself very well in that little
Columbus thing when you actually looked like a clown
[Funny I always thought Mr Sutcliffe had a trial. quote] How any sane
person could construe this statement as somebody "beginning to see
the light" beggars belief. It requires a degree of self delusion
and arrogance that Hitler would have been proud of sitting in his bunker.
Your last contribution was classic O'Gara: O'Gara gets it wrong about
Holland taking Sutcliffe's statement: jnl points this out to him: O'Gara
doesn't reply to jnl but goes off on one of his rants hoping this will
cover up the fact that he cocked up yet again
[/quote]The PR machine rescued the bent police and the media backed the
lie that Sutcliffe was the Ripper ever since, freezing me out and leaving
me with the Real Ripper to deal with.
"Frozen out"?? O'Gara you were never "in". You were
just another crackpot with a conspiracy theory who had his fifteen minutes
of "fame" with the media until they looked at your theory and
saw it for what it was-bunkum. The media have gone away and you are reduced
to trying to be the loudest cock standing on this particular dung hill!!
P S If you want to believe I'm a bent cop to fuel your paranoia then
by all means go ahead
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 29
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:38 am
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Justice Seeker wrote:
Hang on a minute. Where did this idea of the AG pleading Stcliffe's insanity
come from. The crown opposed the insanity defence, and quite vehemently
too.
I must say that, as one of those people who was prepared to listen to
Mr O'Gara with an open mind, and have read his book and website, it is
these distortions of the facts and history, together with an inability
to answer a direct question in a direct fashion, which have completely
negated his credibility in my eyes. Sadly, Mr O'Gara seems more destined
to a career in politics, considering how deftly he resuses to answer questions,
prefering instead to tell us what the 'real' question is.
I only started on this thread in relation to the Kiszco/Castree case.
Unfortunately, Mr O'Gara failed to answer most of my pertinent questions
about how or why Sutcliffe was the Molseed murderer, for which there is
no evidence whatsoever. What I have seen on this thread, having as it
had the potential for an interesting debate, has sadly descended into
a poloarised rant. I am most disappointed, not least with Mr O'Gara who
has done himself and his cause no favours.
Hallelujah!!!!! Sanity appears to be breaking out on this site
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:50 am
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He answered that!
O'Gara said:
Judge Boreham wouldnt accept Sir Michael's pleas and suggested that Sutcliffe
may be lying that he was mad and so he ordered a trial of his sanity to
test the veracity of his plea and his confessions
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 9:58 am
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Indeed that is what Mr O'Gara said.
The problem is, however, Havers never did argue for Sutcliffe's insanity.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:28 am
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^Justice Seeker^ You are stating that Havers never offered an insanity
argument in Court or had shrinks give evidence to this effect?
From The Yorkshire Ripper Website not O'Gara's
When asked his plea on each of the thirteen murder charges, Peter William
Sutcliffe pleaded: "Not guilty to murder but guilty to manslaughter
on the grounds of diminished responsibility." He also pleaded guilty
to each of the seven charges of attempt murder.
Sir Michael Havers told Mr Justice Boreham that the Crown accepts the
pleas by Mr Sutcliffe. He also stated that he has the reports of four
psychiatrists who had interviewed Mr Sutcliffe. Sir Michael: "I have
met with them to discuss their reports with the greatest care and anxiety
and at great length. The general consensus of the doctors is that this
is a case of diminished responsibility, the illness being paranoiac schizophrenia."
Day One Old Bailey:
Last edited by P22 on Sun May 13, 2007 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 344
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:33 am
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The only person whose sanity is in question here is Dermot O'Gara's.
A fine Politician he would indeed make.....more spin than Monty Panasar
....Owzat????
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 7
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:35 am
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Sorry, I am incorrect on this, I apologise. I hadn't appreciated that
the Crown had initially proposed accepting the insanity defence, and had
been thinking of the insanity trial instead.
The problem I have with this whole thing is that, whether or not Sutcliffe
was a copycat killer or not, there is simply no evidence against Tracey,
over and above the assertion that he is something of a psycho. Frankly,
even if this is true, and that he did make trips to the UK at the relevant
time (which has not been evidenced), you could make an equally compelling
(sic) case against a number of other individuals. Particularly if assertions
are made as fact, and any dissent dismissed as acquiesence to a conspiracy.
Like I have said before, however, my interest is really in the Molseed
case. And this is really one area where I cannot agree with Mr O'Gara's
theory that Sutcliffe was the murderer. It just doesn't add up re victim
profile and MO. Mr O'Gara should accept that it might just be possible
that the police now have the right man, or that in any event, it might
not have been Sutcliffe. After all, that doesn't destroy his copycat thery
in any way.
What does make me uncomfortable is the way in which Mr O'Gara, who claims
to be so concerned about justice and liberty. Feels it appropriate to
consistently name someone, who has never faced trial, of being a mass
murderer, with no evidence.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 10:59 am
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The fact that the "real ripper" couldn't drive and O'Gara gave
him lessons in 1978 is where the whole conspiracy theory falls down, assuming
he genuinley couldn't drive, after all many twockers would need lessons
to pass there driving test because of the highway code etc, things that
don't matter when using cars illegally.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 29
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:46 pm
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P22 wrote:
The fact that the "real ripper" couldn't drive and O'Gara gave
him lessons in 1978 is where the whole conspiracy theory falls down, assuming
he genuinley couldn't drive, after all many twockers would need lessons
to pass there driving test because of the highway code etc, things that
don't matter when using cars illegally.
Just one minor point; on his website O'Gara doesn't say he gave Tracey
driving lessons, he says he taught him to drive.
The inference to be drawn from this is that Tracey couldn't drive, not
that he could drive but didn't have a licence.
As for "Justice Seeker" saying that he is uncomfortable with
O'Gara defaming somebody without any evidence, if we take this to the
n'th degree, I have yet to see any evidence of Tracey's existence.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 344
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 1:38 pm
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I had the same thought right back at the beginning. After all its just
the picture of a bloke with a beard on O'Faggots website........it could
be anyone.
I still dont get how no one has actually come out with this stuff...I
mean if I had this knowledge I'd have to forgo my police pension and spill
the beans......I'd not be able to sleep at night. With a cover up of this
magnitude there must be 100's of people who could tell the truth and not
one of them has ever done so.
But still O'flannel sticks to his cashcow...sorry I mean story
Maybe there lies the crux of the matter.
Just how many copies of your book have you sold Mr O'Flannel?
I guess you're not going to send me a free copy to shut me up as requested
eh O'Gafferty....but you'd sell me one right?
Last edited by Mazdaman on Sun May 13, 2007 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in
total
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1276
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 1:40 pm
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Mazdaman wrote:
I had the same thought right back at the beginning. After all its just
the picture of a bloke with a beard on O'Faggots website........it could
be anyone.
I still dont get how no one has actually come out with this stuff...I
mean if I had this knowledge I'd have to forgo my police pension and spill
the beans......I'd not be able to sleep at night. With a cover up of this
magnitude there must be 100's of people who could tell the truth and not
one of them has ever done so.
But still O'flannel sticks to his cashcow...sorry I mean story
Maybe there lies the crux of the matter.
Just how many copies of your book have you sold Mr O'Flannel?
2
1 to himself
1 to Bradford library
_________________
Read the Toothless and Gutless -www.bradfordvision.co.uk/node/12339
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 344
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:16 pm
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The copy in Bradford Library was donated by O'Blarneystone so the staff
told me....and it was autographed by our hero himself apparently
I did try looking for it in the crime section but sadly missed it as it
was in the fairy stories and Oirish blarney butsh.ite section.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 54
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:34 pm
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Mazdaman wrote:
The copy in Bradford Library was donated by O'Blarneystone so the staff
told me....and it was autographed by our hero himself apparently :roll:
I did try looking for it in the crime section but sadly missed it as it
was in the fairy stories and Oirish blarney butsh.ite section. :D
now look, when you bums are reduced to slagging off the old Paddies you
have lost the argument.
Ok lets talk about a Bradford man. Mr Ronald Warren of Bradford who was
a city elected councillor and the deputy chairman of the West Yorkshire
police authority at the time of the Ripper investigation supported me
recently. He told Yorkshire Television on 30th October last, the anniversary
of the first murder that of Wilma McCann that they knew that there were
two killers involved in the Ripper hunt.
He said the police told them that several times and it was well known
in the higher echelons of the police and of course the police authority.
Now perhaps you will say he is as nutty as Sutcliffe but its you fellows
who are the idiots that will believe blindly that the police are totally
honest even in the face of twenty years of frameups which have unravelled
under your noses.
Mr Warren is a sensible man and he is the only honest person who has
come forward to tell the facts as they were then.
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 21
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:51 pm
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According to witnesses, the killer was driving a green or Grey Landrover
when the first girls from Bradford were murdered. This was a couple of
years before O'Gara taught his man to drive in 1978.
Simple question; Did Sutcliffe own a landrover at this time? Or have
use of one?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 344
Posted: Sun May 13, 2007 7:22 pm
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We may have " lost the argument" as you say Mr O'Flannel but
you clearly lost your marbles years ago.
Answer my question if you please.......how much money have you made from
your book.....I dont require chapter and verse just round it up to the
nearest penny you old fool.
This whole thread is a load of old blarney.
Author Message
joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:25 am
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Mazdaman wrote:
We may have " lost the argument" as you say Mr O'Flannel but
you clearly lost your marbles years ago.
Answer my question if you please.......how much money have you made from
your book.....I dont require chapter and verse just round it up to the
nearest penny you old fool. :roll:
This whole thread is a load of old blarney. :roll:
The next time some innocent girl is murdered you will be sick.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1496
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:06 am
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joey3 wrote:
Mazdaman wrote:
We may have " lost the argument" as you say Mr O'Flannel but
you clearly lost your marbles years ago.
Answer my question if you please.......how much money have you made from
your book.....I dont require chapter and verse just round it up to the
nearest penny you old fool.
This whole thread is a load of old blarney.
The next time some innocent girl is murdered you will be sick.
Why - we'll just round up all the paddies because O'Gara the Oracle says
it was a paddy wot dun it.
Christ I thought the thick Oirish thing was a joke - yet we have living
proof in you it isn't.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 30
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 4:59 am
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P22 wrote:
According to witnesses, the killer was driving a green or Grey Landrover
when the first girls from Bradford were murdered. This was a couple of
years before O'Gara taught his man to drive in 1978.
Simple question; Did Sutcliffe own a landrover at this time? Or have
use of one?
In his confession Sutcliffe states that he was driving a Capri on that
night.
The Land rover apparently started off being reported as green but had
changed to grey when the description appeared in some newspapers.
Keith Brannen goes into this aspect of this particular murder in some
detail and concludes that there is no proof that the Irishman was the
murderer, only that he was one of her last customers. There is a link
on the Yorkshire Ripper website to Brennan.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 30
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:21 am
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Quote:
After all its just the picture of a bloke with a beard on O'Faggots website........it
could be anyone.
I have to take issue with you on this one Mazdaman.
Are you seriously suggesting that a fine piece of investigative work like
"The Real Yorkshire Ripper" by Noel O'Gara, competitively priced
at £10 and available in all good bookshops (NOT) is merely
a collection of photo's of a fat bloke with a beard with a tissue of lies,
half truths and misinformation wrapped around it??
Well answer me this then, how would such a travesty of investigative writing
pass the scrutiny of the editorial and legal staff of an independent and
reputable publisher??
Oh S**t it didn't did it??
My apologies!!
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1496
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 5:49 am
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So vulture o'gara are you going to tell us how many copies you've sold
during your publicity campaign on the T&A forum. How does it feel
to be making money out of people's misery? Doesn't it make you suicidal
- I know I couldn't live with myself if I were making money from somebody's
death you I guess can so that says alot about your morality.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 396
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:01 am
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Bahr Tat...I think you have hit the nail on the head there my friend.......funny
how he wont answer my question.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:04 am
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Baht At wrote:
So vulture o'gara are you going to tell us how many copies you've sold
during your publicity campaign on the T&A forum. How does it feel
to be making money out of people's misery? Doesn't it make you suicidal
- I know I couldn't live with myself if I were making money from somebody's
death you I guess can so that says alot about your morality.
I think you bums have illustrated precisely that there are two kinds of
people in this world, the intelligent and decent people and the opposite
kind.
I assure you that having lived in the UK for six years and knowing many
English people I am sure that England is not populated totally by idiots
like you guys.
Perhaps thats why I wrote my book and can feel secure in telling what
is a frightening story and a very real one.
It happened to Bradford and the rest of Yorkshire county and other parts
of the UK and is relevant today just as it was relevant at the time of
the murders and prehaps more so because it is now clear that the UK police
do frame innocent men for murders to clear the books and the media back
this corruption until it is accepted in a court that it was corrupt.
Most people in the UK are pretty reasonable and able to discuss matters
intelligentlty but you have exposed the lowest common denomination that
pretends to know all just because you have a pc in your humble abode.
Now lads please stop the paddy whackery and get real.
If you want to live in the real world ask yourself why you didnt answer
the fact that Ron Warren to name one intelligent Englishman supports me
and why you couldnt address the real issues like the copycat killer and
the blood and teeth and the confessions and trial of your dummy Ripper,
nut case Peter Sutcliffe.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1496
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:08 am
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
Baht At wrote:
So vulture o'gara are you going to tell us how many copies you've sold
during your publicity campaign on the T&A forum. How does it feel
to be making money out of people's misery? Doesn't it make you suicidal
- I know I couldn't live with myself if I were making money from somebody's
death you I guess can so that says alot about your morality.
I think you bums have illustrated precisely that there are two kinds of
people in this world, the intelligent and decent people and the opposite
kind.
Making money out of murder is not intelligent or decent so if you don't
mind I'll stick with my view that you are a stupid muck-raking vulture
in it for the money. It's pretty clear that you're not wanted anywhere
that has memories of these events so I suggest you just get stuffed.
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:58 am
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[/quote]Making money out of murder is not intelligent or decent so if
you don't mind I'll stick with my view that you are a stupid muck-raking
vulture in it for the money. It's pretty clear that you're not wanted
anywhere that has memories of these events so I suggest you just get stuffed.[/quote]
I have made no money out ot selling my book nor do I wish to make any.
I have put many years of my life into this because I had first hand knowledge
of this evil man who terrorised the UK for five years and who still lives
there freely because the police have solved the case.
I could not live with myself if I chose to be like you and just put it
to one side.
The challenges were great and many and you demonstrate even today how
that wall of dont tell me something that I dont want to know about, still
exists.
I can tell you that I could have led a much happier and carefree life
if I had taken your approach but then I would have had to bear the burden
of keeping quiet when I knew that a dangerous killer was walking free.
That was something that I thought long and hard about and I couldnt do
it.
The Ripper is alive and well today and living in the UK and your police
force have fooled you all by taking the confessions of a lunatic copycat
killer and pretending that they got the Ripper.
That is something that they will have to live with and I would not like
to be in their shoes.
It may be comfortable now and in the past but their crime will catch up
with them in the end.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 30
Posted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:02 am
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Quote:
Ok lets talk about a Bradford man. Mr Ronald Warren of Bradford who was
a city elected councillor and the deputy chairman of the West Yorkshire
police authority at the time of the Ripper investigation supported me
Well Noel, old chum I have to break ranks with every body else on this
one and state that I distinctly heard Warren say "I support Noel
O'Gara"
He did say that didn't he Noel? Noel he did say that didn't he?
"the lowest common denomination"
A man of your undoubted erudition would surely know that the word is "denominator"
not "denomination". It must have been a typo as you couldn't
be wrong could you Noel ?[/quote]
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 56
Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:38 pm
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[quote="jnl Well Noel, old chum I have to break ranks with every
body else on this one and state that I distinctly heard Warren say "I
support Noel O'Gara"
He did say that didn't he Noel? Noel he did say that didn't he?
yes he did. phone him up and ask him if you dont believe me. email me
privately and I will give you his number.
"the lowest common denomination"
A man of your undoubted erudition would surely know that the word is "denominator"
not "denomination". It must have been a typo as you couldn't
be wrong could you Noel ?[/quote][/quote]
The Ripper wasnt a good speller but he was the Ripper.
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 396
Posted: Tue May 15, 2007 1:53 pm
Post subject:
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Mr O'Gafferty...you're not doing your cause any favours with idiotic comments
like that are you?
Have you no potatoes to pick this time of year be Jesus.
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jnl
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 30
Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:00 am
Post subject:
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5th May 2007
"He was supposed to be in London for some time but who knows?
14Th May 2007
"The Ripper is alive and well today and living in the UK"
You've obviously received some startling new evidence recently about
the whereabouts of the "real" Yorkshire Ripper, would you like
to share it with us? Or is it just another example of your sloppy prose?
The position so far:-
O'Gara has not provided one scrap of evidence placing Tracey within 100
miles of any of the murders
O'Gara has not provided one scrap of evidence forensically linking Tracey
to any of the murders
O'Gara has not provided one straight answer to any questions regarding
evidence
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:15 pm
Post subject:
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Mr O'Gara, I would be grateful if you could answer a couple of, hopefully,
straightforward questions for me. As I have said before, my interest is
in the Molseed murder, and nothing else. Whether there may have been two
rippers I just don't know, and I do not have sufficient knoweldge about
the case to have an opinion. The questions I have, which are for my own
understanding of your theory, are as follows:
1. You say that shortly before the Molseed murder Sutcliffe attacked
Tracey Brown. This is not, of course, in dispute. You go on to say, however,
that Sutcliffe masterbated over Tracey Brown. I would be most grateful
if you could tell me where this additional detail you attribute to the
Brown attack actually comes from? Where have you read or seen anything
about masterbating on Tracy Brown?
2. You state your belief that it was Sutcliffe's car which was seen (amongst
others) near the Molseed murder scene (white with red markings. However,
is it not the case that at this time Sutcliffe was actually the owner
driver of a lime green car, certainly at the time of the Brown attack?
Could you tell me how you feel so sure that at the time of the Molseed
murder Sutcliffe did, in fact, own a white car?
I would be grateful if you could address these issues for me please,
but would also be grateful if you could also address the victim profile
issue tI previously raised, and the question of MO (battering to the head
which is absent from the Molseed murder) which, to be honest, you haven't
actually answered before.
Thanks
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 25
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:17 pm
Post subject:
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Justice seeker; I've seen a few mentions of the "fact" that
the ripper masturbated over the Silsden victim, but that seems at odds
with the story about a passing car causing him to stop his attack on her.
There was a tissue left at the scene...........
Author Message
Tinky
Joined: 16 Apr 2007
Posts: 4
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 8:28 pm
Post subject: Re: The Yorkshire Ripper
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[quote="Kay Lintern"]Is Peter Sutcliffe the real Yorkshire Ripper?
Or is he the copycat killer that was being hunted during the 1970's/1980's?
Did he admit to the 13 murders in a deal made with the police It was known
by many that the police were looking for two or more people involved in
these murders. Why has there been no mention of the other person/s being
sought in connection to the murders since the arrest and imprisonment
of Peter Sutcliffe Since accepting his confessions, the police etc, closed
the case. There was definitely more than one person involved in the murders...This
was stated by the police themselves and was also publicised by many newspapers.
What happened to the search for this 'other' person/s Why did police close
the case after Peter Sutcliffe's confessions to all 13 murders when these
confessions were just accepted as gospel without even being investigated
thoroughly Is anyone else interested in the truth of this matter and concerned
about the fact that there are so many unsolved murders [/quote]Why R U
Bovvered about him?
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Mazdaman
Joined: 21 Feb 2007
Posts: 422
Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:37 pm
Post subject:
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Because Kay Lintel is really Noal O'faggoty in a dress and high heels.
Well it does fit in with the Homo angle on O'Faggoty
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 11
Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 10:33 pm
Post subject:
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Further to my previous postings on this topic, with regard to the Molseed
murder, and in disappointment of the fact that I have yet to receive any
substantive responses to my queries, there is a further, and perhaps more
fundamental, matter I would like to raise with Mr O'Gara.
It is accepted by Mr O'Gara that the first of the 'Ripper' victims was
Wilma McCann (as is generally accepted). Mr O'Gara states that this was
the work of Tracey.
Mr O'Gara states that Lesley Molseed was murdered by Sutcliffe, the copy
cat killer.
Could it please be explained to me how a murder committed 25 days before
the first 'Ripper' killing could be described, in any way shape or form,
as the work of a copycat killer? Please, answer this, I am not rying to
undermine, just trying to understand where Mr O'Gara is coming from on
the Molseed issue.
(As to P22's comments re the Browne attack, I have still to hear what
these 'places' are where they have read about the masterbation issue.
In addition, the fact that 'a tissue was found' at the scene is hardly
probative of anything.
Can someone from the 'copycat killer' camp please engage with these very
simple and specific points with regard to the Molseed case, even if Mr
O'Gara is not prepared to do so himself?
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:20 pm
Post subject:
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Justice Seeker wrote:
Further to my previous postings on this topic, with regard to the Molseed
murder, and in disappointment of the fact that I have yet to receive any
substantive responses to my queries, there is a further, and perhaps more
fundamental, matter I would like to raise with Mr O'Gara.
It is accepted by Mr O'Gara that the first of the 'Ripper' victims was
Wilma McCann (as is generally accepted). Mr O'Gara states that this was
the work of Tracey.
Mr O'Gara states that Lesley Molseed was murdered by Sutcliffe, the copy
cat killer.
Could it please be explained to me how a murder committed 25 days before
the first 'Ripper' killing could be described, in any way shape or form,
as the work of a copycat killer? Please, answer this, I am not rying to
undermine, just trying to understand where Mr O'Gara is coming from on
the Molseed issue.
(As to P22's comments re the Browne attack, I have still to hear what
these 'places' are where they have read about the masterbation issue.
In addition, the fact that 'a tissue was found' at the scene is hardly
probative of anything.
Can someone from the 'copycat killer' camp please engage with these very
simple and specific points with regard to the Molseed case, even if Mr
O'Gara is not prepared to do so himself?
To answer you please bear in mind that this is a massive case of police
incompetence and sheer criminality in framing the copycat killer and I
dont know all the answers. There are many things that have become clearer
as each year went by and new details were found and I had to be careful
of my sources at all times to ensure credibility but in general I have
put the known facts published from many newspaper and book sources together,
and a clear picture has emerged.
If you study my web site you will get that picture but like some detractors
you can blind yourself to some facts and try to pick holes in others.
Sutcliffe was responsible for Tracy Browne's attack because of the evidence
of her description of him at the time of the attack and many other things
he did which had similarities to his other attacks.
Sutcliffe only became a copycat killer after the Ripper murders were well
under way and his first copycat killing was Jean Jordan in Manchester
where he dropped the fiver in his sick game with the cops.
He believed he was smarter than them and he also tried to outwit the real
Ripper until he realised that he had lost that battle after the Leach
murder in Bradford.
The Silsden attack had no similarities with known Ripper murders which
were in red light areas of the cities and of course were totally different
in their injuries. Tissues were found at the scene with semen in them
which was responsible for eliminating that as a Ripper attack.
The two subsequent murders of McCann and Harrison were so different and
remember that semen was found in both of these cases bearing B secretor
blood.
Smelt and Rogulsky were believed to be Ripper attempts that failed because
no semen was found and they were lumped in only after the first two letters
came to Oldfield claiming responsibility for Jordan also.
Incidentally the Claxton assault was similar to Silsden and tissues eliminated
this from the Ripper case until after Sutcliffe's arrest and it was thrown
in then to clean up the slate because they were certain he did this also.
Claxton was always out of the frame for that reason.
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Baht At
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 1514
Location: Bradford/Heckmondwike
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 7:16 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
joey3 wrote:
self serving claptrap deleted
Why don't you just p*ss off and peddle your lies somewhere else?
_________________
The T&A - guaranteed pleasure for both the TMC and TWC
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P22
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 25
Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 9:13 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justice Seeker wrote:
(As to P22's comments re the Browne attack, I have still to hear what
these 'places' are where they have read about the masterbation issue.
In addition, the fact that 'a tissue was found' at the scene is hardly
probative of anything.
Can someone from the 'copycat killer' camp please engage with these very
simple and specific points with regard to the Molseed case, even if Mr
O'Gara is not prepared to do so himself?
I read it on a website called w w w legalbanter dot co dot uk, but googling
browne + Ripper + silsden pulls it up.
I mentioned the tissue simply because if the police still have it, it
would have his snotty dna on it if not his sperm!
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 11
Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 4:50 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So no answers to my questions about the Molseed murder. This is a shame,
particularly as this is what this loop started up all about!!!
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57
Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 7:24 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justice Seeker wrote:
So no answers to my questions about the Molseed murder. This is a shame,
particularly as this is what this loop started up all about!!!
Look I've answered all your other questions and you should understand
that a man is in custody right now facing charges for this murder and
you are demanding answers to your questions about evidence.
The police have clearly framed Sutcliffe as the Ripper and that is proved
beyond doubt on the evidence of his confessions which are out of touch
with the facts and also the evidence of the bent cops who framed Kiszko.
I stated that Sutcliffe should be a strong suspect for the Molseed murder
on the grounds that he committed a sexual attack on Tracey Browne only
a few months before that murder and a car similar to his was seen in the
area and also it was such an unusual crime that it would be highly unlikely
for two criminals to attack young girls and masturbate over them in that
area and at that same time. For those reasons he should be investigated
for this murder but that will not happen because it would open a much
bigger can of worms as you can imagine.
DNA evidence has been mentioned by police in relation to Humble althought
it never surfaced in court because they bluffed him into confessing to
being the hoaxer in a deal
DNA is now being quoted as nailing Ronald Castree for the Molseed murder
and they are busy trying to braak down his resistance right now so that
he might cut a deal and save them the embarrassment of having to prove
it in open court.
We sll know they framed Kiszko for that murder and in all the time that
elapsed not one cop has ever said that it was a frame up.
They said it was a miscarriage of justice.
Now if you want to solve that mystery first you must find an honest cop
and then look at the 30 year old evidence that lay against Castree while
Kiszko was locked up and ask yourself a few hard questions like, can I
believe the cops now?
Incidentally Kiszko was convicted of the Molseed murder at the time Sutclciffe
was arrested and Sutcliffe is in custody while Kiszko is exhonerated and
now Castree is being set up for it but he denies it and hopefully he wont
be murdered in jail before he comes to trial.
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Justice Seeker
Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 11
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:19 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, it might, actually, just be possible that Castree is, in fact
guilty of the Molseed murder. And if he is, this does not of itself disprove
the Sutcliffe copy cat theory. The problem is, no result with satisfy
you. If Castree pleads not guilty, and is convictied, you will claim a
stitch up. If he pleads guilty, you will claim a stitch up (despite the
inherent probability of anyone actually holding their hands up in open
court to a sexual child murder they didn't comit. You call on the Molseed
murder to be investigated, but this is a rather hollow request seeing
that anything that may come out of such an investigation would be dismissed
by you if it does not fit with your theory.
Nothing gives you the divine right to claim to have a monopoly on the
truth, particularly as you yourself admit to 'not having all the answers'.
I am suprised and disturbed by your resentment of those who try to 'pick
holes' in your theory, particularly as this is exactly what you yourself
are trying to do with the whole of the Ripper investigation. Anyone, particularly
someone who puts forward a theory such as yours, should expect and welcome
that theory being subject to critical analysis. To do otherwise suggests
a theory which is not built on the soundest of foundations.
It is also somewhat surprising that you can be so strident in what you
have to say, given that you rely on books and newspaper articles from
the time. This is particularly so given that these are the very sources
which, in the next breath, and when referring to facts which do not match
your theory, you dismiss as being full of misinformation, or party to
some unspecified conspiracy.
Your theory is undoubtedly an interesting one. However, before you publically
name someone as a serial killer, perhaps it may be better if you are a
little more sure of your facts, and a little bit of evidence might not
go amiss either.
At the end of the day, the 'evidence' you have against Tracey is no more
than could be made out against any number of individuals.
I have no doubt that you are sincere in everything you have tried to
do, but do not fall into the habits of overconfidence in your own theories
which has beset countless miscarriages of justice in the past.
If I can refer you to a quote which I cited eariler in this debate, but
which I think remains appropriate:
"The spirit of liberty is the spirit that is not too sure that it
is right".
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joey3
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 57
Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 11:08 pm
Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Justice Seeker wrote:
Of course, it might, actually, just be possible that Castree is, in fact
guilty of the Molseed murder. And if he is, this does not of itself disprove
the Sutcliffe copy cat theory. The problem is, no result with satisfy
you. If Castree pleads not guilty, and is convictied, you will claim a
stitch up. If he pleads guilty, you will claim a stitch up (despite the
inherent probability of anyone actually holding their hands up in open
court to a sexual child murder they didn't comit. You call on the Molseed
murder to be investigated, but this is a rather hollow request seeing
that anything that may come out of such an investigation would be dismissed
by you if it does not fit with your theory.
Nothing gives you the divine right to claim to have a monopoly on the
truth, particularly as you yourself admit to 'not having all the answers'.
I am suprised and disturbed by your resentment of those who try to 'pick
holes' in your theory, particularly as this is exactly what you yourself
are trying to do with the whole of the Ripper investigation. Anyone, particularly
someone who puts forward a theory such as yours, should expect and welcome
that theory being subject to critical analysis. To do otherwise suggests
a theory which is not built on the soundest of foundations.
It is also somewhat surprising that you can be so strident in what you
have to say, given that you rely on books and newspaper articles from
the time. This is particularly so given that these are the very sources
which, in the next breath, and when referring to facts which do not match
your theory, you dismiss as being full of misinformation, or party to
some unspecified conspiracy.
Your theory is undoubtedly an interesting one. However, before you publically
name someone as a serial killer, perhaps it may be better if you are a
little more sure of your facts, and a little bit of evidence might not
go amiss either.
At the end of the day, the 'evidence' you have against Tracey is no more
than could be made out against any number of individuals.
I have no doubt that you are sincere in everything you have tried to
do, but do not fall into the habits of overconfidence in your own theories
which has beset countless miscarriages of justice in the past.
If I can refer you to a quote which I cited eariler in this debate, but
which I think remains appropriate:
"The spirit of liberty is the spirit that is not too sure that it
is right".
You obviously have not read my book and therefore I have to say that you
are reflecting a portrait of yourself rather than me.
I know for certain that Tracey is the Ripper and I knew that from the
first day that I read the psychological profile of the Ripper more than
a year before Sutcliffe was arrested.
I tried in my book to give a portrait of this amazing man but you would
have to know him as well as I did to really get a glimpse of him.
Just think about some weird or unusual incident that you were involved
in and try telling it to others such as yourself and see how many believe
you and how easy it is to try to pick holes in what you say but you know
it happened and that sustains you.
You believed that Kiszko was guilty for sixteen years and I’ll
wager that you probably still believe that the Birmingham 6 were the real
bombers and all the other released victims were really guilty.
It all boils down to hard evidence that you seem to wish to ignore.
Let me repeat it for you.
Sutcliffe was eliminated not once but twelve times by Bradford detectives.
Were these fellows idiots? I think you would make a case that they were
not and I agree because they are trained to do specific things and not
believe anything other than the hard evidence.
Now on the other hand if Sutcliffe really was the Ripper then they were
idiots to let him go twelve times.
I am saying that some bent cops framed Sutcliffe in a deal and all the
other cops were fooled and anyway they weren’t privy
to the intimate details and even if they suspected that he was framed
what could they do? Risk their job and pension?
You believe that they are all squakey clean and honest. I say that some
are more corrupt than many dangerous criminals and do all kind of deals
with criminals, who are their only associates really.
The copycat killer element of the Ripper case was firmly on the record.
There were two killers involved. Two killers.
The cops got one killer, Sutcliffe and he confessed in a deal to all the
murders.
The Ripper had B blood. Sutcliffe had O blood.
The Ripper had a large gap in his teeth. Sutcliffe has not got this.
The police were looking for an Irish suspect who was seen at the site
of three of the early murders. That man bore an uncanny resemblance to
Billy Tracey.
I didn’t know him at that time nor that the UK police
were looking for an Irishman exactly like him until some months after
the conviction of Peter Sutcliffe.
There isn’t another man in Ireland who could fit the
description of Tracey both with his physical characteristics and his record
of violence against police in the UK and his record on sexual perversion
and prostitution.
And you tell me that you could make that fit anyone.
Dream on my friend and read the book first.
That is only the tip of an iceberg of evidence that I have and you dont
know about.
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